Human Resources Committee on Nov. 25th, 2010

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

You have to connect those dots, though, for most people.

[Erica Usher]

Exactly.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

All right. Did you want to add anything else to that?

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

On family adoption...anyone?

[Erica Usher]

For family adoption it's the same process. Whether it's a relative or not a relative, the adoption process must be complete before we can bring them to Canada, either as a permanent resident or—

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Maybe when we come back.... I know what Madam Minna is getting at: if they have to take the child out of the country.... Isn't that it?

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

For instance, in Muslim families, if my sister passes away or she's too poor or whatever, I take her child, and it's understood in the religion that it's my child and it's adopted, but it's not a legal process that they go through.

How do you deal with those cases, is what I'm asking.

[Erica Usher]

They will look at those cases on a case-by-case basis, look at the best interests of the child, and deal with it accordingly. There's no “one size fits all” in those types of situations.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Vellacott.

[Maurice Vellacott, Conservative, Saskatoon—Wanuskewin, SK]

There are so many questions one could ask, with the repository of wisdom here among our good folk from the departments this morning.

Maybe it is CRA we should be asking this, or maybe you could undertake to acquire this information for us, but would you know the average cost of, say, a domestic adoption and/or an international adoption? How does it vary across the jurisdictions?

Do you have that, or is it purely something that CRA might know? I know $10,900 is the maximum that you can...but do people customarily send in far more than what they know they can get a rebate on or refund on? Do you have any information on this? Can you acquire it for us? Could you undertake to contact the CRA?

[Jacques Paquette]

We can search. We don't have that information with us.

[Maurice Vellacott, Conservative, Saskatoon—Wanuskewin, SK]

I know it's a difficult one, because obviously they only get the $10,900.

I'll just pass it over to my colleague. He has some follow-up questions on other issues.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Thank you.

What time do I have?

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

You have two good minutes.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

I'll try to focus really quickly on some issues.

This will be “the best interests of the child” issue.

Under Citizenship and Immigration, a child can be adopted in a couple of ways: provincially, and then apply for permanent residency; or by way of citizenship, for which there's a special provision.

Are “the best interests of the child” issues different in those processes? Does the department involve itself in the best interests of the child in both cases or just in one?

[Andrew Griffith]

Thank you for your question.

Essentially, “the best interests of the child” issue is the same in both situations, whether the child comes by way of permanent residency or by way of citizenship. Usually the choice of which route to do really will depend on the parents' sense of the situation of the family and the likely—

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Does the department concern itself in precisely the same way in both cases?

[Andrew Griffith]

Yes.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

The permanent residency, as I understand it, is a longer process than going directly through the citizenship route. Is that correct?

[Andrew Griffith]

Erica can probably comment more on that, but my understanding is that the processing time, given that we have essentially to ensure the same kind of evidence, such as having the provincial approval, having all the comfort in terms of the local environment, that it's not a case of child trafficking and the like, and that there's not fraud in documentation—all of those are independent, really, of whether the child comes from permanent resident or citizenship.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Does the province also look at the same issue, the best interests of the child, in both those cases?

[Andrew Griffith]

If you're talking about the provinces, I assume they do, in terms of looking at the home study and the issues related to whether—

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Here's my question, what I want to get to.

When you're dealing with international adoptions, it's a kind of thing that transcends provincial boundaries, and your department, Immigration or HRSDC, would be concerned primarily with issues relating to the best interests of the child and to the foreign country in ensuring legitimacy.

Could the process not be sped up if the federal and provincial governments had an understanding that only one party dealt with what was in the best interests of the child in that adoption, rather than having two streams going, and perhaps at different times, elongating the process?

[Andrew Griffith]

I'm not sure it would make that much difference, because essentially we get the file when the province has basically approved the adoption, in terms of making sure that the family that is going to receive the child is an appropriate family for that—

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

But here's the point—