Human Resources Committee on April 2nd, 2012

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you very much.

Are we moving on now to Madame Perreault or Monsieur Patry? Madame Perreault? Okay.

[Manon Perreault, NDP, Montcalm, QC]

Good afternoon and thank you for coming.

I would like to continue along the lines of the previous comments. Reference was made earlier to youth and aboriginal people. I am of course going to talk about the disabled. You will understand that this cause is particularly dear to my heart.

I believe that one way to resolve these labour shortages would be to improve the education of certain under-represented groups, including the disabled.

Are there currently any programs that would improve access to postsecondary studies for people with some type of disability?

[Herb O'Heron]

Many programs exist in provinces to do that. Ontario has fairly strong support, or had fairly strong support, for programs to help to provide additional support where additional support was needed. There are institutions themselves putting in all kinds of programs to help and encourage students who are disabled to gain access to their programs.

So yes, there are good examples of them. The challenge is in scaling the programs up so that the resources are there to encourage more students to gain the prerequisites, almost, to get through and to gain the skills and complete the kinds of programs that are needed to get into colleges and universities, and so that we can help them once they gain access to the kinds of programs—not just academic support programs but all kinds of support programs—that will help them gain their way through school.

[Manon Perreault, NDP, Montcalm, QC]

This is a terrible thing to say but I find that most of the disabled people I have met who now hold a well paid job often studied before being diagnosed with a disease or before having an accident. They were able to continue and pursue an interesting career.

But I am talking about a young person who suffers an accident, who has never had a career and who is trying to continue. I am wondering whether or not the current integration programs, be they at the provincial or federal level, really meet the needs of those individuals. And, if so, there must be some results somewhere that we can read.

[Herb O'Heron]

As I said, there are some programs in Ontario. I cannot point you to the particular one you're after, but we can do that afterwards if you want.

[James Knight]

Thank you for the question. It's a very important one, because in fact the employment success of disabled persons is very low. The numbers are not good at all. In fact, they're something of an embarrassment.

But I do know, as my colleague has suggested, of particular institutions, and all jurisdictions are working on this issue. I have been to institutions that have gone the extra mile and have remarkable facilities for disabled learners, including foot-operated typewriters and all sorts of devices that I never would have imagined. I can tell you about the detail of that and where you can find that.

Another problem is the reluctance of employers to employ disabled people. That is another issue. If we are graduating more disabled learners, we must work on the employment side. We must educate employers to the benefits of disabled workers. I think it's an area that needs considerable focus.

[Manon Perreault, NDP, Montcalm, QC]

You are referring to technological aids. I am not talking about technological aids, because I know that today we have a whole range of devices like that. Obviously, I feel that we should perhaps be approaching employers to encourage them to at least give those people a chance.

On another topic, are there any programs that would broaden the range of postsecondary studies available to disabled individuals? Is there anything available now that would help them secure a position in a well paid profession, instead of having to always work for a minimum or very low wage?

At present, most of these people end up working in associations for the disabled. So they do not have an opportunity to be reintegrated into normal society.

[Nobina Robinson]

The only thing I can say is that there is an HRSDC-funded program that you should ask them about. It's called Skills Link. It specifically targets the under-represented population, the one that might be also unemployed. In the literature I've read about Skills Link, I think they do target people with disabilities. It's a funded national program. I think your question should probably go there in terms of getting access.

[Manon Perreault, NDP, Montcalm, QC]

I have one last quick question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Go ahead. Mr. Patry may be running out of time, but you do have time to go ahead.

[Manon Perreault, NDP, Montcalm, QC]

That means that somebody who wants to study at college or university cannot get information directly from his or her institution about various programs. That means that these people must really get the information from a variety of places in order to find out about the interesting programs.

[Nobina Robinson]

I would think that all post-secondary institutions are agnostic as to whether the person is disabled. They're looking at the entry-level requirements for each program.

If you're talking about the person who hasn't even been able to get to post-secondary and needs the supports for that, I suggest that there are other federal and provincial support programs that help people complete their learning.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Mr. O'Heron, you have 30 seconds.

[Herb O'Heron]

Just very quickly, I'll note that the directory of Canadian universities does point handicapped students to the kinds of programs that exist at Canadian universities. There is a web-based source at AUCC that will help to at least point students to potential programs and potential support mechanisms that are found on our campuses.

[Manon Perreault, NDP, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

We'll now move on to Mr. Mayes.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here today.

For my colleague who brought up the issues around disabilities and training, the budget that has just been tabled has $30 million in there for what we call the opportunities fund for disabled people. You should be voting for the budget to support that, because it's a good initiative.

I'd like to direct my first question to Mr. Knight. The knowledge infrastructure program that we did in the stimulus...that was an effort to stimulate the economy but also to help with capacity issues around universities and colleges. I know that the colleges in the Okanagan Valley took advantage of it.

The local campus in the community where I live expanded their capacity for their skills training. One of the other things the Okanagan College has is mobile units for welding or carpentry. It's working really well. They're helping to take a bigger variety of opportunities to the various areas in the Okanagan Valley. That is one thing. Could you talk about other initiatives that can be taken to move from the college out into the communities, and to the more remote communities, especially first nations communities?

The other initiative they took in B.C. was to move part of the University of British Columbia campus to the Okanagan and take some of the disciplines out of that and move them into an area that is maybe more focused on agriculture. Is that anything that the universities would be looking at to try to increase the capacity?

Also, in speaking with the medical association about some of the challenges for people who go to university to learn how to be a doctor.... They get in the city, get caught up in that lifestyle, and want to stay in the city, but we need doctors in rural Canada. I know there's a pilot project—I think it's out of the University of Toronto—in which they've set up a campus where they can do their training away from the university. I think that's a very positive thing. Are there any other initiatives that have been undertaken to take that training and those opportunities out into the more rural areas?

Mr. Knight.

[James Knight]

I just want to acknowledge, Mr. Mayes, that the knowledge infrastructure program for colleges and institutes was marvellous. We were able to catch up with a lot of deferred maintenance and indeed expand the capacity of the system. We've expressed our gratitude for that program many times.

Perhaps I should broaden the discussion a bit to the fastest-growing delivery component of the college education experience, and that is distance learning. This offers remarkable opportunities and is expanding exponentially; it's getting at the notion of creative ways to solve our problems that are not unduly costly. Distance education is growing very quickly.

On the college side, with some of the practical applications and the physical applications required, there are certain limitations. Nevertheless, some institutions.... I've mentioned Algonquin College. Algonquin College—among others—is putting a huge emphasis on distance education, which is a way to use resources economically and to deliver education where it is required. You may not be able to get a single parent to come to an institution, but they may be able to participate online. That is an important need.

Ensuring that all of Canada has access to high-speed Internet would be a tremendous contribution to distance education.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Would any other witnesses like to speak on that issue or on what I asked about?

[Herb O'Heron]

Yes.

Again, “Open Doors, Open Knowledg” was something that universities pulled together in the fall to thank government for the knowledge infrastructure program and the tremendous resources they provided to universities and colleges across Canada to build increased capacity in research facilities on our campuses. With $1.3 billion, it really resulted in $3.2 billion in new infrastructure on university campuses across Canada. Again, we're very thankful for that kind of program.

You asked whether universities are going to other communities. There is now a program in Thunder Bay for medical doctors. There's a program at the University of Northern British Columbia, and medicine is being taught in other communities in the north as a result of those new programs. In fact, we're modelling those programs in Canada on programs in places like Australia, where they've had tremendous success in taking similar kinds of medical programs, for which enrolment and degrees have to be constrained because so many students want to get into them, but there isn't a capacity for society to provide all of those opportunities. There can't be as many doctors as students who want opportunities to get into those professions, but we do need doctors and nurses and health professionals and teachers to work in communities around the world. So yes, indeed, we are looking at a couple of models in Canada right now to try to do some of that.

Bringing students onto campus and taking programs to students are other really important things. When we look at the kinds of differences in aboriginal populations across Canada, it's not really a surprise, then, that in western Canada we have some very innovative programs looking at how to bring, attract, retain, and support aboriginal Canadians on our campuses, and also to support them in their communities. So whether you look at the University of Victoria's programs and the suite of programs they put together to support aboriginal Canadians and really increase the graduation rates of those students, or you look at universities in Manitoba or Saskatchewan, all of those institutions are putting together very interesting programs.

Again, it's a matter of finding what's working best in each community, because each community is a little different from the others. It is a matter of finding what works, what works when, and what works how, and then replicating it where it's really useful to do so. I think those kinds of programs, whether for aboriginal Canadians or other under-represented student groups, are really the kinds of models that we're looking to replicate across the country.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Your time is up. We've extended it by two minutes.

We'll move to Mr. Cuzner.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thanks very much.

Thank you all.

It's good to see Greg again.

I have only five minutes, and I have a bunch of questions, so if you could--

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

You have seven minutes.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

I have seven? Geez, button your shirt, Mr. Chairman—your heart's going to fall out.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!