Human Resources Committee on June 18th, 2012

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

If you want to ask how that might be—

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

That's a quote from—

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

—you're certainly welcome, but to suggest that somehow there is a misrepresentation wouldn't be correct.

Mr. Gingras, if you wish to address the last question...?

[Yves Gingras]

Maybe not fully, but what I can bring to it is that on the additional information we are collecting on job vacancies, we are making efforts to bring it to EI clients so they know there are jobs available. This is going in the right direction in the sense that we are trying to help people identify where the jobs are. The objective of this is to reduce the unemployment spells and make sure the jobs that are vacant are filled by Canadians. That's certainly an objective that we're pursuing.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Okay. I think that's fair.

Your time is up on that.

Mr. Daniel, you have a few questions. Go ahead.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

My questions relate to the national occupation classifications. We've had a number of witnesses come in and talk about that.

Part of the concerns that they've raised is the fact that the granularity of these codes may not be as good as it could be in terms of identifying the specific skills that are lacking in some of the professions. Can you comment on that?

[Yves Gingras]

The projections that are produced at our department use the national occupation classifications, so we don't use a specific set. We use what's used by others. We don't have our own. We use the standard that most people would use in Canada. The projections are done for 140 occupations. If we were to go beyond that, we would go to another level of granularity, bringing us to considering 500 occupations.

When we look at smaller occupations, at smaller regions, we often run into statistical difficulties because we don't have enough information. Going to the next level represents substantial difficulties for us in producing high-quality information. It limits our capacity to go down to other levels. That said, our staff is looking at ways to produce some of that information, but there are certainly some challenges because of the nature of the data that we get. There is only so far you can go in disaggregating that information.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

So in terms of this data-gathering and this information we're basing a lot of the decisions on, can you actually give me your sense of the reliability of the information being obtained from the provincial and regional offices of HRSDC?

[Yves Gingras]

The information we collect and post on our Working in Canada website is from credible sources. We ensure that the right methodologies are applied and that the information is validated before we use it. So we have full confidence in the information that we use.

Sometimes it is true that it's difficult to reconcile one type of information with another, and it may take some time, but we are putting information there with a view that it's complementary and it could meet the various types of needs of our clients. The information we use is always from credible sources.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

Can you confirm, in terms of identifying the actual skills...because I think in a lot of cases you're looking at the jobs and the job gap. How do we go about identifying the skills that are missing?

Do you understand what I mean?

[Yves Gingras]

Yes. You're pointing to our work about occupations, and I would say that's one type of indicator of the needs of the labour market. That is one indicator that is complemented by other information. We use information from national surveys, from Statistics Canada, about people's training, their education levels, and certification of their credentials. So I would say that these indicators are all complementary.

It may not be possible to come up with a synthetic indicator. I would say people need to judge using various indicators and come up with an expert judgment of what skills the market requires. We do not attempt to synthesize one indicator based on all of these complementary indicators we produce or collect.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Conrad, earlier you spoke about the amount of money that was being transferred to the provinces for apprenticeship programs, etc. Do you have any numbers in terms of how many apprentices are actually out there, how many are actually finishing, how many are successful at finishing, etc.?

[Catherine Scott]

I can speak to that.

There are about 330 registered apprentices across the country, and about 80% of those are in the Red Seal trades. With regard to completions and the completion rate, one of the issues we've been looking at is that the completion rates have been flat over the past two decades or so, but we have seen an increase in the number of completions over the past three years, and that is even despite the recession. So that is a positive outcome.

Since we launched the apprenticeship incentive grant and the apprenticeship completion grant in 2006 and 2009, respectively, the provinces and territories have stepped up and put in place a number of other complementary measures to support apprentices. We think that is also having an effect in helping apprentices to get through the system and complete their apprenticeships.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

I have a supplementary question to that.

Some of the complaints I have received in my riding are that there aren't enough private sector companies offering apprenticeships. Are there any incentive programs for companies to offer these programs, so that they can actually train people and improve their skill sets?

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

That will be the end of your time allotment, so you can complete the response.

[Catherine Scott]

I think, obviously, employers are key to apprenticeships. It is demand driven, and an apprentice cannot begin a program unless they are hired by an employer. At the federal level, there is the federal tax credit for employers. Provinces have also undertaken a number of initiatives. For example, in Ontario, Alberta, and B.C., they have similar measures to encourage employers to participate in apprenticeships. I know, in particular in Alberta, the provincial government has done a lot of work in the oil and gas sector to encourage employers to take on more apprentices, and they've seen some positive results there as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you very much. I'd certainly like to take this opportunity to thank the department officials for appearing before us and sharing their thoughts and answering the questions.

Thank you very much. We'll suspend so that you have an opportunity to leave. Then we'll go in camera.

Go ahead, Mr. Lapointe.

[François Lapointe, NDP, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Mr. Chairman, this is probably the last time we are all together, given what is going on. I would like to have my motion put on the agenda. You are probably already aware of it, since I notified the committee last week. I would simply like to have my motion put on our agenda, before we sit in camera after the break. I am referring to my motion on employment insurance and the possible follow-up study .

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Just a moment.

We're going to conclude that part, and suspend that part of the....

Yes, go ahead.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brant, ON]

Sorry, Mr. Chair; I would like to make a motion that we go in camera.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

With respect to the motion.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brant, ON]

With respect to the motion; to discuss this motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

My plan was to go in camera with respect to the report.

He has raised a motion. You want to go in camera.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brant, ON]

I'd like to go in camera.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

We will ask the witnesses to leave. We are going to deal with some committee business. Thank you for attending.

We have a motion to deal with that motion in camera. We will have a vote on Mr. McColeman's motion.