Human Resources Committee on April 30th, 2018

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Pursuant to the order of reference of Thursday, February 1, 2018, the committee is resuming its consideration of Bill C-62, an act to amend the Federal Public Sector Labour Relations Act and other acts.

Today the committee will be hearing from federal departments. Welcome to all of you.

With us here today we have from the Canada Border Services Agency, Marc Thibodeau, director general, labour relations and compensation. From the Canada Revenue Agency, we have Ann Marie Hume, deputy assistant commissioner, human resources branch. From Correctional Service of Canada, we have Kristel Henderson, acting director, corporate labour relations. From Statistics Canada, we have Geoff Bowlby, director general, collection and regional services branch, census, operations and informatics field. From the Treasury Board Secretariat, we have Sandra Hassan, assistant deputy minister, compensation and labour relations sector, and once again we have today Dennis Duggan. Welcome to all of you. I understand a number of you have opening remarks so we're going to get started right away.

From the Canada Border Services Agency, Marc Thibodeau, director general, labour relations and compensation, the next seven minutes are all yours.

[Marc Thibodeau, Director General, Labour Relations and Compensation, Canada Border Services Agency]

Thank you very much.

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair, and members of the committee. I'm pleased to be here on behalf of the Canada Border Services Agency for your deliberations on Bill C-62 and would like to thank you for the invitation. As the committee is aware, Bill C-62 combines the previous Bill C-5, regarding sick leave provision in the public service, and Bill C-34, which concerns collective bargaining and essential services. I will focus my remarks on the last component of essential services as it relates to the CBSA.

The agency's dual mandate of facilitating the entry of people and goods at the border while upholding national security means that it must retain numerous employees in positions designated as essential.

To give you a sense of the magnitude of this responsibility, allow me to illustrate further.

The agency employs approximately 14,000 individuals, who provide service at over 1,100 locations across Canada and abroad. Our workforce consists of both uniformed and non-uniformed staff who ensure that border operations run smoothly on a 24/7 basis.

On an average day, the CBSA will process over 255,000 travellers who come to Canada by land, rail, marine, and air. In a year, our officers will perform over 17 million commercial releases, conduct over 89,000 commercial examinations, inspect 780,000 courier shipments, seize $400 million in drugs, and collect $30.5 billion in duties and taxes owed to the crown.

In addition, the CBSA plays an important role in protecting the safety and security of Canadians. For example, border services officers increasingly intercept highly toxic substances such as fentanyl and fentanyl analogues in our postal and air cargo courier streams. Between May 2016 and December 2017 the agency made 193 seizures totalling over 32 kilograms, which are most often smuggled into Canada in shipments that would otherwise be legitimate.

Essential service positions are critical for CBSA operations and allow the agency to keep Canada open for business. The current Federal Public Sector Labour Relations Act defines an essential service as any service, facility or activity necessary for the safety or security of the public or a segment of the public.

Essential services and the agreements that govern them, as determined by the CBSA and the bargaining agent, are imperative to ensuring public safety and security, and are in line with the CBSA's legislative mandate under the Canada Border Services Agency Act.

This is why approximately 75% of FB positions that are at CBSA are designated essential, and out of that 75%, 95% are front-line positions. The remaining 5% of designated positions fall within the other bargaining unit. So for greater clarity, 75% of the FB positions are designated essential, and 5% of positions in the other groups. Currently the number and percentage of essential services as positioned relative to the CBSA workforce has remained relatively stable in time. Since 2003, the creation of the agency, we have been at about 75% or 80% of the population.

The agency welcomes the committee's study of this bill, and steps taken to bring clarity to the process, as essential services are central to the agency's mandate and operations.

This concludes my opening statement.

I would be happy to answer any questions the committee may have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you.

From the Correctional Service of Canada, we have Kristel Henderson, acting director, corporate labour relations for seven minutes.

[Kristel Henderson, Acting Director, Corporate Labour Relations, Correctional Service of Canada]

Mr. Chair and honourable members of the committee, I would like to thank you for this opportunity to speak to you today on behalf of the Correctional Service of Canada, CSC, regarding your study on Bill C-62.

My name is Kristel Henderson. I am Acting Director of Corporate Labour Relations at CSC. I am hopeful that I can provide the committee information on our workforce at CSC and our labour relations regime as it currently stands today, in order to provide some further context for your consideration of Bill C-62.

I will begin by providing an overview of the work that we do. CSC is responsible for administering sentences of two years or more in institutions of various security levels, and supervising offenders under conditional release.

On a typical day, CSC manages approximately 15,000 offenders within our 43 institutions across Canada, in addition to more than 8,500 offenders under supervision in the community.

As one of the largest departments in the public service, the Correctional Service of Canada employs approximately 18,000 staff members from across the country. Our organization's workforce includes correctional officers, parole officers, program delivery officers, health professionals, electricians, food services staff, and staff providing corporate and administrative functions at the local, regional, and national levels. Our employees work within institutions, parole offices, and administrative or headquarters areas in all 10 provinces and three territories. While some work mostly regular day jobs, others work shifts that entail long hours. Two occupational groups, for the most part exclusive to CSC, represent over half of all staff employed in operational units.

The correctional officer group, or CX group comprises 41.8% of staff while another 14.1% of staff are in the welfare programs, or WP category. This group includes parole and program officers who work in CSC institutions and in the community. The remainder of CSC's workforce reflects the variety of other skills required to operate institutions and community offices such as health professionals or corporate and administrative staff.

All staff work together to ensure that institutions operate in a secure and safe way and that offenders are effectively supervised on release, with specialized initiatives and approaches for indigenous offenders, offenders with mental health needs, and women offenders.

Our workforce and workplace directly impact the success of our operations and how we fulfil our mandate. Without a strong and professional workforce, and without a workplace conducive to its development and well-being, we would not be able to get these jobs done.

As this committee is aware, Bill C-62 would restore the public service labour relations regime that existed prior to the coming into force of certain budget implementation acts. These include those related to essential services in the resolution of collective bargaining disputes, along with the rights of bargaining agents to negotiate terms and conditions of employment related to sick leave and disability matters.

The provisions of the proposed bill support the return to the former negotiation approach to determining an organization's essential services profile. In that regard, CSC has always been committed to establishing a listing of essential positions, which promotes a profile that balances opportunities for active union involvement and manageable operational risk, and that is based on sustainable rationales.

Most positions located within our institutions and community offices continue to meet the definition of essential service in that they provide a service that is or will be at any time necessary for the safety or security of the public or a segment of the public. As a result, a re-examination of the proposed profile, where safety and security contributions can be managed through alternative approaches in the event of a strike, will be required to determine where we may be able to assume any additional degree of operational risk management. The amendments to the Federal Public Sector Labour Relations Act, as introduced by former Bill C-4, removed the choice of dispute resolution method for the core public administration and made conciliation the primary mechanism, except in cases where 80% or more of the positions in a bargaining unit are designated by the employer as essential.

Historically the dispute resolution method selected by bargaining agents active within CSC has been conciliation even when 100% of the positions within the bargaining unit have been deemed essential. It is expected that, should Bill C-62 come into force, bargaining agents would revert to their historical dispute resolution method. In addition, Bill C-62 also proposes to repeal a section of former Bill C-59, the implementing legislation of budget 2015.

Division 20 of part three of Bill C-59 authorized the Treasury Board to establish and modify terms and conditions of employment related to the sick leave and disability regime of employees, notwithstanding the provisions of the FPSLRA, but outside of the collective bargaining process. Those provisions came into force upon royal assent, although to date, they have not been implemented by the Treasury Board.

If enacted, Bill C-62 would allow consideration of the terms and conditions of employment related to the sick leave of CSC employees to be dealt with as part of the collective bargaining process.

Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today, and I welcome your questions.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you very much.

Next, from Statistics Canada, we have Mr. Geoff Bowlby, director general, collection and regional services branch, census, operations and informatics field.

Mr. Bowlby, the next seven minutes are yours.

[Geoff Bowlby, Director General, Collection and Regional Services Branch, Census, Operations and Informatics Field, Statistics Canada]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank the committee for inviting us to appear today in the context of its study of Bill C-62, the proposed act to amend the Federal Public Sector Labour Relations Act and other acts.

Statistics Canada, now entering its 100th anniversary, has grown from the humble beginnings of one office and 123 employees in 1918, to approximately 5,500 employees spread across three major regional offices, and approximately 1,600 statistical survey operations interviewers across the country. The agency's reach extends from coast to coast to coast and far beyond, while continuing to provide statistical information to Canadians and the world.

Statistics Canada produces statistics that help Canadians to better understand their country, its people, its resources, its economy, its society and its culture. In addition to a census every five years, we conduct more than 350 investigations into practically every aspect of life in Canada.

As Canada's central statistics agency, Statistics Canada is required by law to take on that function for Canada as a whole, and for each province and territory. We provide Canadians with useful and objective information that serve as the basis for well-informed decisions. In addition, we have adopted the United Nations Fundamental Principles of Official Statistics to help us in supporting our mandate and in serving Canadians better.

Over the past century, we have seen the rapid evolution of technology and the emergence of an increasingly global society and economy. Statistics Canada has changed as well, enhancing our processing, analytical capabilities, and expanding our programs.

Statistical survey operations is a separate organization that employs a workforce of interviewers that are at the heart of the operation that converts surveys into the information that Canadians need. The interviewer workforce has been conducting surveys for decades, with the work evolving over time. Surveys were first conducted on paper, then computer punch cards, then advanced electronic questionnaires and laptops, or the tablets used today. This workforce is spread throughout the country and involves interviewers who work from home, or in one of our five large call centres.

Now more than ever, we focus on the needs of our users. We employ cutting-edge statistical methods and we work with our clients, stakeholders and partners in order to respond to Canadians' information needs. We continue to be innovative in using new tools and new methods to make our data more accessible and more relevant.

Without a doubt, Statistics Canada's day-to-day business is numbers, data, measurements, surveys, statistics, and analysis. The agency is responsible for a number of surveys and programs, two of which are essential to the safety and security of Canadians, specifically on the basis of income security. These are the labour force survey and the consumer price index, both of which fall under specific legislation to bind accountability.

The labour force survey, or LFS, data are used to produce the well-known unemployment rate, as well as other standard labour market indicators such as the employment rate and the participation rate. The regional rates of unemployment produced by Statistics Canada are based on information collected through the labour force survey, which is legislated under the Employment Insurance Act and regulations. These rates establish both eligibility for employment insurance and the amount received of those approved.

The scale of the labour force survey program, a 10-day collection period done monthly from coast to coast to coast, requires that approximately 82% of the interviewer workforce be assigned to this program. Furthermore, legislation requires that cost of living adjustments be made for all old age security benefits quarterly, and for existing Canada pension plan benefits annually. These benefit adjustments are calculated by using the all-items index of the consumer price index, so that benefits keep up with the cost of living.

CPI calculation is essential for the proper administration of the OAS and Canada pension plan programs. Without the CPI all-items index, OAS and CPP benefit adjustments would not be possible, thereby creating a negative financial impact for Canadians.

Like other organizations in the federal public service, we have followed the development of Bill C-62. We have examined the impact of the proposed changes from the points of view of an employer and an organization. Over the years, Statistics Canada has established very positive labour relations with its union representatives. We are pleased to have the opportunity to continue that partnership in order to provide a healthy and pleasant workplace for our employees. We are committed to negotiating fair and transparent essential services agreements with our colleagues in the unions, through a negotiation process that focuses on collaboration, so that we produce fair results both for employees and employers.

In order to ensure that our central programs are not adversely affected, Statistics Canada has mitigation strategies in place for the continued delivery of its programs, including the LFS and CPI that I just mentioned, and the protection of its data. Contingency plans are kept current to ensure that at no point are essential programs at risk in the event of a plausible disruption.

The agency would not have known such great success over the past century if it wasn't for the generations of dedicated and committed experts who have worked tirelessly to provide high-quality statistical information that matters.

I'd like to thank the members of the committee for this opportunity to speak today. We'd be more than happy to address any questions you may have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you very much.

Now, from the Treasury Board Secretariat, we have Sandra Hassan and Dennis Duggan. The next seven minutes are yours.

[Sandra Hassan, Assistant Deputy Minister, Compensation and Labour Relations Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm pleased to briefly outline the role of the employer of the core public administration with respect to Bill C-62, an act to amend the Federal Public Sector Labour Relations Act and other acts. The core public administration comprises the departments and organizations named in schedules I and IV of the Financial Administration Act.

To begin, I would like to stress that the government is committed to restoring the fair and balanced labour laws that recognize the important role of bargaining agents in protecting the rights of employees. Bill C-62 would achieve this by returning the labour relations regime, and the roles and responsibilities of the employer, to what it was before legislative changes were introduced in 2013.

With Bill C-62, we are returning to the pre-2013 collective bargaining system, and the employer's role in it. In the event that bargaining comes to an impasse, bargaining agents would be given the power to determine which dispute resolution process they wish to use, conciliation/strike or arbitration.

The dispute resolution method would not be predetermined by imposition of the legislated provisions of the act. Nothing in Bill C-62 changes the role of the employer from what it was before 2013.

Another way the legislation would create a more balanced system relates to how public interest commissions and arbitration boards must weigh factors when making awards or recommendations. Under the current system, they must give greater consideration or more weight to recruitment and retention as well as to Canada's fiscal circumstances.

Under Bill C-62 these two factors would be among other factors a third party decision-maker must consider. It will be up to the decision-maker to determine how much weight would be given to each factor. However, the employer would retain the right to make arguments on the state of the Canadian economy as well as on the need to attract and retain competent persons to the public service to meet the needs of Canadians.

These are among the criteria that can be argued before a public interest commission or arbitration board, the only change being that those on the commission or board have the flexibility to weigh the factors as they see fit.

In the area of essential services, the key principle is ensuring the safety and security of the public. Under the current system, which Bill C-62 seeks to change, the employer has the exclusive authority to designate essential services.

Bill C-62 would allow bargaining agents to represent the interests of employees in negotiating essential services. The employer would no longer have the exclusive right to determine which services are essential and to designate the positions necessary to deliver these services

Rather, the employer would work with the bargaining agents to identify essential service positions, and would enter into essential services agreements with them. These agreements identify, first, the types and numbers of positions in the bargaining unit needed for the employer to provide essential services and, second, the specific positions necessary for that purpose.

In the new system, the role of the Treasury Board Secretariat would be, first of all, to provide guidance and advice to departmental officials; second, to review, at the department's request, any positions in dispute; third, to negotiate essential services agreements at the national level; fourth, to apply to the Federal Public Sector Labour Relations and Employment Board for unresolved matters and to provide representation; and finally, to maintain a central database of all positions identified as providing an essential service.

Mr. Chair, these are just a few examples of how Bill C-62 will restore the system to the way it existed before 2013 and the employer in its previous role.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you very much.

Now we go over to questions. First up we have MP Blaney.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. My apologies for being late.

I also want to thank our witnesses for joining us today.

Today, we are discussing Bill C-62, An Act to amend the Federal Public Sector Labour Relations Act and other Acts, but behind this act, there is a partisan objective, as I have already mentioned. During the election campaign, the Liberal government promised to give sick leave back to the unions, a gift of $1 billion. That is the cost of this bill.

What I find interesting in today's presentations is that we are also dealing with the notion of essential services. In the light of my previous experience, the presentations from the Canada Border Services Agency and the Correctional Service of Canada were of particular interest to me.

Mr. Thibodeau, your mandate is to control access to the borders for goods and for people. Heaven knows, that it is an important role, particularly in view of the current migrant crisis. You also have a mandate to ensure national security, and that is what concerns me today. The bill has an effect on labour relations, but also on your ability as an employer to ensure the security of Canadians. To do that, you must have the necessary tools.

We have been told that CBSA officers in the field cannot disclose to the media the number of illegal migrants crossing the border. However, last summer, there were 300 to 400. Those officers are also under pressure to deal with the claims quickly, which, of course, makes Canadians uneasy about how rigorously the process designed to protect them is being applied.

As for essential services, you mentioned that you have to consider the issue, given the new legislation. What will be the effect of the new legislation on the essential services your agency provides? What amendments could we make to the bill to make sure that the priority is first and foremost the security of Canadians?

[Marc Thibodeau]

Thank you for your question.

The designation, the determination, of essential positions will be done collaboratively with the union rather than unilaterally by the department or the employer.

In the regime, the agreement, that we have established in the current round, 95% of positions on the border are designated essential. That designation follows discussions with the union.

The issue of health and safety is central, and critical to us, whatever the legislative regime.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

So safety is important.

I was having a discussion with my colleague Kelly McCauley just now and we discovered that, after the Liberals came to power, there were cuts to the CBSA staff responsible for ensuring safety on the borders, as well as a reduction in the overall budget envelope for the agency.

Are you in a position to give me specific details about that this afternoon?

[Marc Thibodeau]

No, I would not be able to do so this afternoon.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

In any event, the Parliamentary Budget Officer has already provided the data to us, but it would be interesting to have it confirmed by the agency.

I will now turn to Ms. Henderson, from the Correctional Service of Canada, the CSC.

In your presentation, you talked about the operational risks of withdrawing CSC officers. What will the operational risks be under the new legislation? What means will you use to mitigate the impact of the changes that the new legislation will bring about?

[Kristel Henderson]

As was the case under the previous regime, we will be able to designate essential positions in discussions and negotiations with the bargaining agents. About 85% of the positions are located in institutions or in the community. Those positions provide essential services. While the labour relations regime may change, we will always be able to provide those services, which are essential for health and safety.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

You are going to do that in collaboration with the union?

Do you have data on the absentee rate for employees in the Correctional Service?

General data show that the absentee rate is higher in the public service than in the private sector, but I would like to know whether you have data that specifically applies to the Correctional Service. Can you tell me a little about that?

[Kristel Henderson]

I do not have data on the absentee rate at hand, but we will certainly be able to provide you with it.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Yes, I would like that. Thank you.

Let me quickly ask my final question.

Mrs. Hassan, you have said on a number of occasions that the Treasury Board is going back to the previous procedures, but could we amend any provisions in this bill to make sure that the balance is maintained and that it will always be possible to defend the interests of the taxpayers? Could we make sure, for example, that the public service is competitive, while not having an undue advantage over the private sector?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

You're over time, but I will allow a brief answer.

[Sandra Hassan]

Bill C-62 provides that balance between the interests of the employer and those of the bargaining agents. It establishes that negotiation will be a key factor.

I have no suggestions as to amendments to this bill.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Okay. Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you.

Mr. Ruimy, please, you're next.

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Thank you very much for coming, everybody, and for your testimony.

I find it a little offensive when our colleagues on the other side suggest we're giving something to you for the sake of giving it to you, rather than it being earned.

Ms. Henderson, with 18,000 correctional service members, how would you define the work of a correctional service person? Is it stressful? Is it tough work?

[Kristel Henderson]

Certainly. The front-line officers are confronted with situations that are difficult from a mental health perspective. The situations they have to face and the security incidents they have to deal with, these are certainly....

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Do you see high levels of stress, mental illness, perhaps PTSD?