Human Resources Committee on Feb. 21st, 2019

[Monique Moreau]

Certainly. We're big fans of work-integrated learning if you consider it under a big, broad definition. Many of us think of work-integrated learning as co-op programs and apprenticeships, for example. We'd make sure that the on-the-job training I've been describing is recognized as an investment.

Certainly we agree with you that clean tech and some of the other more focused areas are important, and will be critical to the Canadian economy, but they will probably not serve the needs of small businesses. There will be some in that; we do have very innovative businesses who are members of ours. Those exist in the Canadian economy, certainly. But if you're trying to grab a broad swath of the small business economy and the small business community, then that is probably not the best way.

[Kerry Diotte]

This next one is for all the panellists. We've heard some really good ideas and suggestions. What would be the number one solution to this right off the top, to really solve the problem ASAP?

I'll maybe start with you, Ms. Powell.

[Rosemarie Powell]

I would suggest that supporting more pre-apprenticeship training programs would be highly essential, as would ensuring that everyone has access to the pre-apprenticeship training programs regardless of eligibility criteria. If you want to get skilled workers into the program, forget the concept that you must be on Ontario Works in order to participate in a pre-apprenticeship program. For the most part, it's the only way for many women and under-represented groups in the construction industry to get their first foot in the door, to get the exposure and the supports they need.

To get into the apprenticeship with the union, there are certain things that are required. You need to have your high school transcript. For people who are newcomers and who had their high school education back home, how do you make sure it's easy for them to be able to access that documentation and translate it if they need to? Within a pre-apprenticeship program or the Employment Ontario system, those kinds of documentation issues are dealt with. They can receive the supports they need in order to be able to process whatever documentation and to be able to prepare for the test. You have to pass your English test again, and your math test, and your mechanical aptitude test. Where else are you going to get the industry language you need in order to be able to pass those? The pre-apprenticeship system is really essential. Let's eliminate all the eligibility criteria and make sure we support people financially.

To get into the union, remember, there's an eight-week training period where you're not being paid. You're learning. You have to figure out, as a person who's already poverty-stricken and who doesn't have the required resources, how you're going to live. Sometimes, if the union training centre is in Oakville and you live in Toronto, well, you now have to find a place to stay. That's not paid for. You have to figure out how you're going to feed yourself. As a newcomer and an immigrant, you're often also responsible for your family. For women, you're responsible for your family and your children. How do you make sure they're taken care of while you go through this apprenticeship training program?

So invest in pre-apprenticeships. The pre-apprenticeship system will allow the individual to receive supports, whether it be through Ontario Works or employment insurance or other types of stipends that might be provided by the federal government to support them during that eight weeks. For most pre-apprenticeship programs, they will be able to get recognition of that eight weeks with the union so that they don't have to take that additional eight weeks once they get into the union, because it's usually a partnership with the union.

[Kerry Diotte]

Thanks, Ms. Powell. I just want to give Mr. Bronk an opportunity to tell us the number one way we can solve this problem....

[Robert Bronk]

Again, I would say there's a lack of awareness, not only with high school youth, but with younger people who have finished high school. They're 23 or 24, they've bounced around a few jobs, and they don't know what their options are. There's a lack of awareness among teachers, parents and career influencers. I know this is a provincial program, but the OYAP program could be beefed up and funded. They're the people who actually work in the high schools. They're the ones who are the career experts and they are pro-construction, but a lot of schools don't have OYAP coordinators. That already exists. That could be beefed up.

Again, I'm repeating myself. I think it's a lack of awareness. There's a big group of people who just don't know what's out there. They don't know there are good jobs that could match their personalities and aptitudes, etc. It's about creating that awareness and information, something like Germany does.

[Kerry Diotte]

That's good stuff.

Ms. Moreau.

[Monique Moreau]

I would like to add a footnote to Mr. Bronk's comment.

In Nova Scotia, they've created something called the Business Education Council, which is a partnership between the provincial government and stakeholders in the business community. Their sole goal is to embed entrepreneurial skills at the primary level and in the high school curriculum. They're working closely in the community to.... I think that will also get to the problem MP Falk talked about, which is increasing parents' awareness as well. If you can start telling children about it when they're really young, that will help expose them over the 12 or so years they are in school.

That would be a footnote to the suggestion, which I would agree with if I had to split. Ours would be to better communicate with small business owners on government programs that can help offset the costs of hiring and training. As an organization, we take that responsibility seriously and arm ourselves to do that, but the government could increase it's role in advertising some of the existing programs.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you.

Next we'll hear from MP Ruimy, please.

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Thank you very much. Thank you, everybody, for being here today.

I'll be sharing my time with Mr. Cuzner.

My riding is Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge. We're just a small city. I work a lot with a group called Pathfinders, who tap into the federal skills link training program. Every session, I go in and spend two hours with the students. There are about 25 or 30 of them, five times a year

These are youth who have fallen through the cracks. Maybe their parents weren't able to point them in a direction. Whatever the reasons, they are there. The challenge I see is this: How do we tap into those folks? Are your organizations connected with the skills link training program and the organizations behind it? Are you going out and being proactive? I don't see organizations coming to Pathfinders. I don't see organizations coming in and saying, “Hey, you could do this. You could get this job and you could start doing this.” They are lost children, so to speak. I don't see anybody really reaching out, trying to bring them in because they are lost kids.

Very quickly, I want to know whether you guys are tapping into those.

[Robert Bronk]

I'm so glad you asked that question.

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

I was waiting the whole time to ask it.

[Robert Bronk]

If you're familiar with Toronto, you will know that 31 Division in the Jane and Finch area has the highest crime rate in Canada. We are working with the police and we are having an event called “Make your future“. We had one event already, and we're having another in April. It's an outreach to all the high schools. They're targeting the kids who are on the cusp of dropping out—not the kids who are going to university and college and have their act together. It's the kids who are at risk of dropping out. Then they have no other option and they join a gang or whatever.

We're working with that community and with the police. It's not just the construction trades. The Armed Forces are exhibiting. The police are exhibiting. Local businesses that are hiring are exhibiting. There's going to be about a thousand kids. We want to have it twice a year.

There's another program called Hammer Heads. They recruit from high-risk neighbourhoods in Toronto. They take about 15 to 20 per block. They go to 12 union training centres. They spend a week at each one. At the end of a 24-week period, they have all the records of training for all the safety equipment. They can use the swing stage, the scissor lift, etc. They can work at heights. The unions will then say...for example, Sprinkler Fitters will say, “I need five people.” The painters might say, “I need six,” and they get dispatched to them.

It's highly successful. They have a retention rate of over 90% after five years. They've tracked the graduates. Guys are buying cars and houses. These are all people from those communities who were high-risk.

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Thank you.

Could you forward to the clerk a backgrounder on those two programs?

[Robert Bronk]

Yes, I'd be happy to.

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

If we want to solve problems, that's where we need to be focusing our efforts because we have people who are begging for this.

Thank you.

I know I don't have much time left for Rodger.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

You have two-twenty.

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Two-twenty, Rodger. It's all yours.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Okay.

I want to follow on Scott's concern about wage suppression. I know that the official opposition had identified, in one of they S.O. 31s, wage stagnation as an issue, so I know it's one that all of parliament is seized with. If you look at the stats coming out of the States, you'll see the same thing—great employment levels, record—but wage stagnation is a huge factor.

I have just a quick example. There are 20,000 people in the seafood processing industry in Atlantic Canada. There are 400 processors. We're hearing from some that they can't find people. There are no temporary foreign workers in Newfoundland, and very few in Nova Scotia and all that. The handful of companies that are using that program are the ones that aren't paying as high a wage as the others. It is absolutely a case of wages not being high enough.

With regard to the fact that you've identified that 60% of your members have increased salaries, is there a deeper dive on that? Do you have a deeper drill-down on that information? It would be neat to see the comparison: What are the increases? What sectors? Are some sectors over others? If you have more information on that, that would be very valuable to the committee in its deliberations.

[Monique Moreau]

I certainly can provide that. We'll table that detail. We had 6,300 responses to the survey that generated that. It was just in the second half of last year, so it's fairly current. We can even break it out by city, sector, size of business, and the rural-urban split. We'll get you that breakdown.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

And what the types of increases were or whatever.

[Monique Moreau]

I don't know if we'll be able to get into that detail, but let us take that back and we can get back to you.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Anyway, we'd appreciate that.

[Monique Moreau]

Certainly.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

With regard to the mobility stuff, companies have to do a better job. When they built Syncrude, the tradespeople out of Edmonton built it on four 10s and an eight. Guys drove up on Sunday night, but they were out of town, out of Fort McMurray, by a little after noon on Friday, so they got home for Friday and Saturday night and that sort of thing.

Do you have confidence that your businesses are doing all that they can with regard to mobility, or do you see other aspects? The tax deduction is one thing. Providing accommodation is huge. When you have 800 electricians in Alberta who are out of work and 800 carpenters in B.C. who are out of work.... These are some of the best-paying jobs in this country. What can we do to make sure that those Canadians are getting first crack at those jobs?

[Robert Bronk]

Wow, that's a tough one. Vancouver is like Toronto; the cost of living is just through the roof and the vacancy rates are through the floor. When Alberta was booming, there were a lot of people from the east coast, of course, flying to Alberta and working there. However, when it's booming in the GTHA, the cost of living is the thing. Say you sell your house in Calgary where the market's terrible—you might even lose money—and then you move to Toronto. How can you afford to buy something in Toronto?