Human Resources Committee on Feb. 28th, 2019

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you very much.

Madam Sansoucy, please.

You have six minutes.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I must admit that after reading the supplementary estimates (B), 2018-19, the questions I have are more about what's not included.

First, you mentioned opportunities for persons with disabilities. There's another measure for them, the disability tax credit. We've seen the rejection rate jump by 60%. I have to wonder why.

We just finished a study where we heard from many witnesses living with episodic disabilities. They told us how important this measure is for helping them make ends meet. These are often people with serious and prolonged impairments.

What's behind the 60% increase in rejections?

[Chantal Maheu]

Thank you very much for that question.

The disability tax credit is administered by the Canada Revenue Agency. The CRA is responsible for reviewing applications and following up with the applicants to determine whether they are eligible. The CRA would be better equipped than us to answer that question.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

I hope I've gotten you interested. After all, your job is to support persons with disabilities. What questions has this raised within your department? How are you going to work with the CRA to ensure that the people who have these needs are heard?

During our last study, witnesses told us they're required to reapply for the registered disability savings plan every year and explain that they are still missing a leg. They are having trouble accessing this funding. The program is administered by the CRA, but your mission is to integrate these individuals and improve their quality of life.

How concerned are you about this? How do you approach the CRA about such a massive increase in rejections?

[Chantal Maheu]

As you know, about a year and a half ago, the CRA created the Disability Advisory Committee. We support the CRA. We work with it when it needs expert advice. We also work closely with the CRA to help it understand the realities that persons with disabilities live with, but ultimately, the CRA is responsible for administering its own legislation, and it's up to the CRA to make recommendations.

If the advisory committee has recommendations that go beyond what the CRA has to do, we would of course work with the CRA to provide support, but it's really up to the CRA.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

All right, thank you.

As of January 1, 2019, seniors are automatically enrolled for the guaranteed income supplement when they turn 65. Many seniors in my riding aren't receiving it. When they come to us for help, we realize they're not getting that money.

How much money would have to be included in the supplementary estimates for your department to ensure that seniors across the country receive this benefit that they are entitled to?

[Leslie MacLean]

Thank you for the question. I'll do my best to answer it.

With regard to our efforts to ensure that we're reaching our goal of continuing to increase the number of people receiving the benefits they're entitled to, we don't need to seek supplementary funding. It's part of our normal duties.

However, over the past few years, we've really stepped up our efforts to contact every individual who may be eligible for the guaranteed income supplement and old age security.

Over the past few years, for example, we've written hundreds of letters to individuals we think are eligible, asking them to apply so that we can register them and so that they qualify for the program.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Wouldn't it be simpler to just register them automatically, as you do for seniors turning 65?

[Leslie MacLean]

I was just getting to that.

The law was amended a little while ago. It came into force in December 2017. That means that since January 2018, we've been writing to people as soon as they turn 64 to notify them that, without having to do anything, they'll be automatically enrolled for old age security and the guaranteed income supplement. We tell them they don't have to do anything, apart from file their taxes, obviously, and they'll be automatically enrolled and considered for both programs, based on their income, of course.

That means that since January 2019, people have been automatically qualifying for both benefits at once. Right now, we're working on ways to go back and reach people who might be eligible, but whose eligibility predates the change in the law.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

I sincerely hope that in the near future, things will change so all seniors are automatically eligible.

The minister appeared before the committee and told us that employment insurance would now offer more choice and flexibility and that it should reflect the conditions of families and workers in 2019.

We know that 60% of workers are currently not eligible for EI. If we break it down by gender, 30% of women and 50% of men qualify.

The minister said he wants to implement a reform, which leads me to my next question.

Within the department, have you started working on a reform to reflect the new realities of the job market, especially for women in precarious work?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

That's time, but I'll give you a chance to answer it briefly, please.

[Graham Flack]

As the minister said, we're in the process of examining what form that reform or study could take, so yes, we are working on that issue.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you.

Up next, we have MP Ruimy, please, for six minutes.

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Thank you very much for coming today.

I want to spend a little bit of time on the Canada summer jobs program because that's one of my favourite programs. I think it's a program where MPs can actually make a difference in their communities. I know that in my riding we've been able to increase not only the dollar amount but the number of jobs and the number weeks that have been given. I actually make it a point to visit almost every single one and look at what they're doing, what organizations are working with them, what kind of skills they are learning, and whether they match what they're taking in school. It's one thing to have somebody at a gate to take a ticket, but when you have a hatchery, as we do in our riding, and they're hiring students who are actually taking environmental studies in school, what a great experience it is.

You had mentioned that the money being spent there is providing the surveys. That's very interesting to me because in order to make good policy, you need to be able to understand the impact of the things that you're having to do. As an example, this year you no longer actually have to be a student. Could you explain what that is and how that came about, please.

[Leslie MacLean]

Mr. Chair, in terms of the change in emphasis, the minister spoke to this quickly on Tuesday. The focus has really been around quality work experiences. I think one of the considerations is around the move from student to youth. This ensures there's a broader range, obviously, of individuals who can be supported, ensuring one of the five national priorities around under-represented youth, and that really ensures the broadest possible applicability of what is an extraordinarily popular program. We do receive a large number of applications every year, and it has been steadily increasing year over year.

Very simply put, I think the focus on youth is very much to ensure that those people who may not be able to be in school, whatever their personal circumstances, or who may not be planning to return to school, are still able to get into the job market and still able to get a quality work experience with the goal of ensuring that they get exposure to the labour market, build attachment to the labour market, and even possibly receive funds to enable them to consider returning to school if they so choose.

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Excellent.

You've already done surveys for the previous year, and you said that there were 80% satisfied customers. It doesn't mean we're there yet. I can remember our first year in doing this, and there were a lot of challenges in 2015-16. I can remember people coming to me and saying, “Well, it's coming to us too late.” It's hard to hire somebody sooner, especially university students.

What else are you seeing from the reviews that you've received? Can you give me a few highlights of what has come back from those reviews?

[Leslie MacLean]

Thank you. I'd be happy to do so.

As I mentioned in my earlier remarks, we surveyed employers for the first time for the 2018 program, and that was where we were very pleased to learn that almost 80% were very satisfied or satisfied. I should note that we have been surveying the students themselves—it will be the youth for the 2019 program—and last year again we chose a different way to do that. We surveyed them via their employers and got a much higher response rate.

If I could share, Mr. Chair, some of the information with people, the results from the students were very positive. Some 90% thought they had improved their oral communication skills; 88% had developed mentor-like relationships with their employers; 80% thought they had developed leadership skills; and as an important note, 80% had saved money from their work experience to finance their schooling.

I would just note, we don't take that as an opportunity to rest on our laurels. The program is really designed to provide those quality work experiences for youth, so feedback from employers and feedback from the youth themselves is a very important part of how we want to continue to improve this extraordinarily popular program year over year.

[Graham Flack]

If I could just add one other piece, the program is, as you indicated, unique, in that members of Parliament are actually involved in helping to set priorities.

To go back to the very first question that was asked about things that had been heard from employers on whether the new program was too onerous or not, we really value the feedback on this. We've given you the operating constraints, the reason we've tried to put in a little more rigour in terms of what we're asking back, but given your unique involvement in the program, you will be getting a kind of feedback that will be very helpful for us. We'd like to continue to receive it, because we are trying to continually adapt and improve the program.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you.

MP Long, please.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and good morning to our presenters. Thank you for your presentations.

Mr. Flack, the government is investing additional funds in student aid to promote, for example, student experiential learning, paid internship programs and apprenticeships. It's a bit of a running joke that I always mention my riding, but in my riding of Saint John—Rothesay, which is a wonderful riding in southern New Brunswick, we were lucky enough to have a skills link program and a youth employment strategy program through the Human Development Council.

I do not like to rank them, but it is probably one of the most meaningful, transformational programs that I have advocated for. It's a collaboration between the Human Development Council, the Outflow shelter, the Teen Resource Centre and the Learning Exchange—all these wonderful non-profits in my riding—and it's offering training opportunities for at-risk youth and for youth that need a helping hand. It's just an absolutely wonderful program.

One example of the program is that there's a shop underneath Outflow where youth are learning woodworking skills. Truthfully, woodworking is a lost art. My dad was a woodworker, so when I see youth working on mouldings, frames, sashes and all these kinds of things, it's wonderful. As I said, it's a lost art.

The program is so well rounded that these youth, for example, are trained in woodworking and carpentry. Those youth are now working on a renovation in a building for affordable housing, which in fact some of them may themselves be living in. It's an absolutely beautiful, wonderful program.

Mr. Flack, can you elaborate on how the funds for that training internship program are being spent and will be spent moving forward?

[Graham Flack]

I'll start. We may ask one of our colleagues to come up who is more on the front line of the programs, but I can give some context, and I should state in full disclosure that I'm a proud Nova Scotian from the province adjacent to yours, so if you hear me brag about that, then we can maybe compete.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Okay, very good.

[Graham Flack]

One of the big changes we've seen over the last decade is the degree to which the labour shortages we're seeing are not just in specific regions of the country, but literally from coast to coast to coast. The paradox is this mismatch between jobs we know are there, including a considerable number in the skilled trades, and our seeming inability to stream enough people to fill those jobs.

I would say the programming suite is in some ways experimental, in that it tries a range of different things to try to get at what the barriers have been to individuals entering into apprenticeship programs that we really need. That includes everything from the use of interest-free loans to allow people to take apprenticeship courses.... For women in particular, there are certain apprentice trades in which they are significantly under-represented, so there's been some experimentation around that as well.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Yes. I'm going to talk about that in a second.