Evidence of meeting #15 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was industry.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Bruce Webster  As an Individual
Robert Watson  President and Chief Executive Officer, Information Technology Association of Canada
Marcia Barret  Representative, Caregivers' Action Centre
Jeremy Janzen  Senior Director, Human Resources, HyLife
Baerbel Langner  In House Legal Counsel, Immigration, HyLIfe
Portia MacDonald-Dewhirst  Executive Director, Canadian Agricultural Human Resource Council
Mark Wales  Labour Task Force, Agriculture, Agriculture and Agri-Food Labour Task Force
Naveen Mehta  General Counsel, Director of Human Rights, Equity and Diversity, United Food and Commercial Workers Union Canada
Claudia Colocho  United Food and Commercial Workers Union Canada

5:15 p.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Agricultural Human Resource Council

Portia MacDonald-Dewhirst

Yes, $1.5 billion

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Long Liberal Saint John—Rothesay, NB

Annually.

5:15 p.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Agricultural Human Resource Council

Portia MacDonald-Dewhirst

That's annually in lost revenues, for the agriculture side of the agriculture and agri-food industry. That is an incredible contraction of the industry. The industry is at critical risk at this point in time.

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Long Liberal Saint John—Rothesay, NB

We really appreciate your coming in and we're here for your opinions, so I'm going to focus back to you, Ms. MacDonald-Dewhirst.

Knowing that it's not one size fits all and that you can't just cookie-cutter a solution across the country, if you were the minister of employment and labour, what would you do to fix this situation? Just give me your opinion. What would you do?

5:15 p.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Agricultural Human Resource Council

Portia MacDonald-Dewhirst

I'm glad you asked that question, because the industry has come together to sort that answer out. They've done the research, and it's called the Canadian agriculture and agri-food workforce action plan. It lists two overarching recommendations: this industry needs to fix the supply of labour, and it needs to invest in skills training for this industry. With those two components—fixing the supply of labour and ensuring the workforce is well skilled—this industry would really be poised for growth and success.

The workforce action plan has done the work, has done the research. It's led by Canada's national labour task force. This industry has its act together. It's really put some effort into coming together with one voice for all commodities across Canada.

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bryan May

I beg your pardon. I have paused your time. I notice that the bells are ringing. I need to ask for unanimous consent to continue. I suggest we continue for approximately 15 minutes—actually, less than that. We will leave right at half past. Do I have unanimous consent?

5:15 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bryan May

Thank you.

Continue, please.

5:15 p.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Agricultural Human Resource Council

Portia MacDonald-Dewhirst

I just want to close by saying that we have prepared some binders for you. Everybody is leaving you with good information and good research. That workforce action plan is in front of you. You have our clear recommendations, including the recommendation that Mark Wales spoke about for this very complex industry. The industry is hoping for a centre of specialization and some special attention to its needs, as laid out in the workforce action plan.

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Long Liberal Saint John—Rothesay, NB

In that report, you also talk about expanding and improving pathways to permanent residency, and I think another recommendation is a central office for LMIAs. Can you elaborate on those?

5:15 p.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Agricultural Human Resource Council

Portia MacDonald-Dewhirst

Improving pathways to permanency is really critical for the issues that were described. We want to ensure that those workers who come in through a temporary foreign worker program of some sort have an opportunity to continue to be skilled workers in the industry and grow with their jobs into real careers. There are limited pathways to permanency within different provinces and within different skill sets, and that is really constricting the ability of Canadian-trained workers who come to our country to stay with the businesses that have supported them.

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bryan May

Excellent. Thank you.

I'm sorry; you don't have enough time for another question, I'm afraid.

We will move on to Ms. Ashton, please.

5:15 p.m.

NDP

Niki Ashton NDP Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB

Thank you, and thank you to all our witnesses for being here today for this important study.

Based on the testimony we have heard over the last few weeks, it is clear that what we are talking about here is the concept of immigration to our country. As the daughter of immigrants—both my parents immigrated to Canada—I know, through my family, what it means to come here for a better future for their children. Unfortunately, that is not something afforded to temporary foreign workers, certainly not those who will never have access to permanent residency. It has been made known to us that since 2006, Canada has accepted more temporary foreign workers than immigrants, and that is a problem.

I am heartened to hear—and we have heard it over the last few weeks—a constant reference to access to citizenship. I think we have to be clear as to how that is central to the solution, but there is a lot more here that we need to be dealing with.

I want to direct my questions to UFCW, and particularly to a number of points you alluded to.

First, I want to acknowledge—and it was touched on by HyLife as well—that in Manitoba workers do have access to PNP, the provincial nominee program. I would acknowledge that this has everything to do with the kind of leadership we saw at the provincial government level from the NDP government and that it is not available in other provinces to the extent that it is in our province. I think that needs to be acknowledged. There must be political will so that workers can have access to citizenship. Just talking about it in theory is not going to cut it.

I want to bring it back to how the lack of access to status is connected to the potential abuse that workers might face. We just heard from the cousin of Sheldon McKenzie, a man from Jamaica who was picking vegetables in Leamington who was hurt on the job and eventually died from his head injuries. He was at threat of being deported on a regular basis. It was his cousin, who is a Canadian citizen, who was able to stop him from being deported. She talked about the ability to stay here and what it means to have access to citizenship. Could you talk to us a bit about what is at risk when people don't have access to citizenship?

5:20 p.m.

General Counsel, Director of Human Rights, Equity and Diversity, United Food and Commercial Workers Union Canada

Naveen Mehta

The model that UFCW Canada is setting out works in an unionized setting. The success we've had with Maple Leaf, HyLife, Olymel, Cargill works because even where there's a road to permanent residency, during those two years they're under a collective agreement and they have a union policing the collective agreement and dealing with grievances and health and safety issues. There's this huge union family working with the employer so that the outcome is that employer is able to keep those workers.

They're paid decent wages. They get benefits. Some of them are allowed to bring their families during that period. It's a night-and-day difference difference between that and the regime most migrant workers face across this country. Even in Alberta, for example, the opportunity to join a provincial nominee program in a non-unionized environment is held out like a carrot, and we have layers and layers of cases of abuse of these workers.

I know we've had this discussion from an economic perspective, which is fundamentally important to us as Canadians, but we can't just view the workers as commodities. They're human beings who have children, who pay taxes, who are part of nation-building and part of the fabric of the country. If we're going to have that dialogue, we have to ensure that the road to permanent residency can't be a long one. If anything, permanent residency upon arrival is what's preferred; the less preferred is the pathway to citizenship and permanent residency.

We know from the live-in caregiver program that there are thousands upon thousands of cases of abuse and exploitation of migrant workers in this country. About four years ago we put together an entire book called Migrant Worker Book of Abuse. There are four large volumes. They were too big to bring on the plane.

It's important to bear that in mind. We believe in the economics of Canada, but the key is to ensure that we have good, healthy workers. If we need workers, these jobs are obviously not temporary, so why don't we give them an opportunity to stay? If they're working towards their permanent residency, we need to make sure that they're not just left out there alone, because that's where the abuses happen. That's where people get injured. That's where people get killed.

5:20 p.m.

NDP

Niki Ashton NDP Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB

Mr. Mehta or Ms. Colocho, can you speak to what it means for migrant workers to pay into EI without being able to access it?

5:20 p.m.

United Food and Commercial Workers Union Canada

Claudia Colocho

It's hard for me to understand how we can pay into EI without receiving the protection we are paying for. I have seen workers who have accessed it by mistake and then gotten penalties for doing something they didn't know they didn't have a right to. I assume that if I pay into it, I have a right to have it and I'm entitled to it. I don't understand why we don't have access. I think that's something that needs to be reviewed.

5:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bryan May

We'll go over to Mr. Ruimy for the last word.

June 1st, 2016 / 5:25 p.m.

Liberal

Dan Ruimy Liberal Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC

My thanks to everybody for coming today.

Mr. Mehta, we've heard a lot of abuse stories, and that seems to form the basis of a lot of testimony. However, you're telling us the opposite. You have a great story sitting right next to you. What's the reason that your story is so different from everybody else's?

5:25 p.m.

General Counsel, Director of Human Rights, Equity and Diversity, United Food and Commercial Workers Union Canada

Naveen Mehta

I'm glad you asked that question. The difference is that during the road to permanent residency, we have a whole regime of protections around the worker in this environment. It's a unionized environment.

If workers are alone, by themselves, with no unions involved, they are fully on their own, and it's not the way it would be for you or me being non-union. If I don't like my job, I can leave, but they're tied to the employer. They have no labour mobility. The employer has them by the jugular.

5:25 p.m.

Liberal

Dan Ruimy Liberal Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC

A tip line currently exists for TFWs experiencing abuse. Do you think that's adequate? Do you have any ideas on how we can improve upon that for non-unionized workers?

5:25 p.m.

General Counsel, Director of Human Rights, Equity and Diversity, United Food and Commercial Workers Union Canada

Naveen Mehta

The tip line, like the enforcement, is nonsensical. From my understanding, the previous government put together a book of blacklisted employers. For years, there were very few names in it.

We can't rely on workers to say they're having a problem. We need proactive enforcement. That means governments going out into the fields, into workplaces, and actively monitoring employers. Without this, we will continue to have those abuses, and human beings will continue to be treated as commodities. I don't think that's the Canada that we want.

5:25 p.m.

Liberal

Dan Ruimy Liberal Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC

What body would you suggest should monitor the abuses?

It's across the country, so how would we be able to monitor the situation? We couldn't just go out and send inspectors all over the place. Could we?

5:25 p.m.

General Counsel, Director of Human Rights, Equity and Diversity, United Food and Commercial Workers Union Canada

Naveen Mehta

Of course you could. Why couldn't you? We inspect all sorts of things in this country.

I think you can do it at the federal level where things are under the federal jurisdiction, but there has to be an honest conversation between the provinces and the federal government as to what they want that immigration regime to look like. This is under federal jurisdiction, but if we don't have that dialogue, then you have a patchwork of systems. In Alberta you might have 5,000 provincial nominee seats, whereas in Ontario, depending on your skill level, you might have none.

5:25 p.m.

Liberal

Dan Ruimy Liberal Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC

Okay. Thank you.

With transferable work permits, currently it's an unfair relationship of power. While maintaining respect for LMIAs, how can we balance workers' rights while ensuring that workers remain within the sectors and regions where they've been hired as per their LMIAs?

5:25 p.m.

General Counsel, Director of Human Rights, Equity and Diversity, United Food and Commercial Workers Union Canada

Naveen Mehta

It's in our submissions, and some of the other speakers have spoken to this issue as well. If we're going to be a little ingenious—and I don't think it's an ingenious solution—you have sectoral bargaining and you have sectoral work permits as well. I think that starts to answer that question.

If you have one employer that is horribly bad, my preferred response to all of this is to join a union, but if you have a horrible employer, this way you could at least go to another employer in that sector.