Human Resources Committee on Nov. 15th, 2016

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

Could I ask for a written response then? I think it is very important that we are preparing—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Absolutely. That's a good point.

If you can provide the information you're talking about to the clerk, we will make sure it gets distributed. Thank you.

Now for six minutes, we will go over to MP Tassi, please.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for your presence today and for the great information you have provided.

I'm going to focus my questions on education funding, particularly for indigenous students and students with disabilities. I'm doing that because I've worked for 20 years with high school students, but also I have three post-secondary institutions in my riding, so I am in constant communication with students, and I really feel a call to respond to their needs.

All the information has been fantastic, and I particularly liked slides 9 and 10. Well, I didn't like them, but they are interesting, and pay equity is something on which I hope this committee will make an in-depth study in the near future, so thank you for all the information provided.

First, for INAC, do you have any data on the number of indigenous youth who currently access government programs, including the PSSSP, the university and college entrance preparation program, and the post-secondary partnerships program, and is there any significance attached to that data?

[Paula Isaak]

For the PSSSP, the post-secondary student support program, we believe it supports around 23,000 students. The program is delivered by the communities, and we don't have perfect data. It's too imperfect to know exactly how many students it supports, but our information tells us it's around 23,000 students for the post-secondary student support program.

The post-secondary partnerships program supports institutions to create programs that serve indigenous students, so it is much harder to determine exactly how many students are being supported.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Do you have the funding dollar figure?

[Paula Isaak]

For PSPP, the post-secondary partnerships program, the annual amount is $15 million.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Do you have any idea how many indigenous students who are seeking post-secondary education are not able to do that because they don't meet the criteria to get the support?

[Paula Isaak]

That's very hard for us to estimate, because we don't know how many students would be, I'll say, rejected, or not able to access it. We have very anecdotal information. We don't have a solid piece of data around how many students are not accessing it. We know there is a backlog. We're told by communities that there is a backlog, and we hear it in every discussion with communities. We know there is definitely a backlog, but we just don't have firm data.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Does anyone have that data? Is that being collected or compiled anywhere?

[Paula Isaak]

It isn't being compiled in one place. The Assembly of First Nations has done some work in the past, from which they have said it's around 10,000 students, but I suspect it's probably higher.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Do you see this as a need and as something we should perhaps be tracing?

[Paula Isaak]

We do need more data, absolutely. It's something that should be tracked. It's a very dispersed program, and it's difficult to know who has asked and has not received, because it's difficult to collect that.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Right, but there is a way to at least get some data that's going to help us move forward. That is important data.

I was glad that MP Julian asked the question about the 2% growth cap on the program, because it's something that I myself have raised, and it's good to hear that there is going to be a redesign of the program.

Ms. Pichette, you spoke about working with the provinces, and I'm glad to hear that. That is one area that I am hoping to draw attention to as we move forward. Ontario, for example, has announced that next year tuition is going to be free for students from families with incomes under $50,000. I just want to make sure that we flag, with respect to indigenous students, that indigenous students who are applying under the PSSSP program are also going to be receiving...there's a way that they can be covered, because if they don't fall under this other program with Ontario, then they absolutely should not be missed.

Are we working on that? Are we looking to ensure that those indigenous students will be covered and won't fall through the cracks?

[Paula Isaak]

I will say that we are working very closely with the ESDC to make sure that we don't create perverse disincentives, that students can access post-secondary student support as well as a Canada student loan or grant. Right now the programs don't work seamlessly together, but we are working very closely to ensure that they do, so that we can maximize the number of indigenous students who can access either PSSSP or the Canada student loan or grant.

I don't know, Mary, if you want to speak on this a bit more.

[Mary Pichette]

Just to add to what Paula said, we continue to work with INAC as well as our counterparts in provinces and territories. One of the things the government committed to in budget 2016 was to introduce what's called a flat-rate contribution for students. Right now, when a student applies for student loans and grants, we require them to report on all of their assets as well as their income and the income they think they might earn, and 50% of the time they overestimate and 50% they underestimate. As a result, the government committed to introducing, before next year, a fixed student contribution, and in the context of that we'll also be looking at things like PSSSP and the amounts that indigenous students bring to the equation.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Thank you. I just want to make sure that those are—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you very much. I'm sorry, but that's—

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

That's not the time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Okay, I will give you two seconds. Go.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Could we have a written response on this one?

The concern I've heard is that right now in education funding, the federal government covers disabilities but does not cover temporary disabilities. I'm hearing from students that there should be some accommodation for temporary disabilities. What I mean by that is—for example, I visited my mother in a villa, and a young girl was in there. She had a shattered pelvis. She is a McMaster University student. People also have mental health issues.

I just want to put that on the radar. Are we're doing anything with respect to temporary disabilities for students, and helping those students gain the funding they need in order to continue their education?

Thank you for your accommodation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you.

We now go to MP Zimmer for five minutes.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses too.

My questions are for Indigenous Affairs and are related to education.

I'm a former teacher. I taught in the north, in Fort St. John. We had a special aboriginal component that would deal with certain cultural issues around aboriginal education. It wasn't on-reserve education but it was trying to see aboriginal kids basically become successful, and there were a lot of great efforts there by some local teachers that I know, and they continue today.

You said about $300 million goes toward aboriginal education. Is that correct? Was that the number you used, Paula?

[Paula Isaak]

That's for post-secondary.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

That's for post-secondary. Can you divide that among the number of students who are actually receiving the funding? How much does each student receive out of that $300 million? Do you have that number?

[Paula Isaak]

Again, it depends. Because the communities deliver it themselves, they determine the amount. It could be they might pay the full cost of education for that person to go through—