Evidence of meeting #28 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was program.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:40 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bryan May
I gave you an extra minute and a half, Peter, just because you're new.
We'll go over to MP Sangha, please.
9:40 a.m.
Liberal
Ramesh Sangha Liberal Brampton Centre, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Heather Dryburgh, in your presentation you compared higher and lower education levels, rich people and poor people, families who are not able to afford education for their kids.
What are the education levels of the groups, including indigenous people, immigrants, those with a disability, and single parents, and are those education levels correlated with low-income and high-income levels, as you explained in your presentation?
9:40 a.m.
Director, Tourism and Centre for Education Statistics, Statistics Canada
They are correlated with income. Of course there's a range of education and income levels in each of these groups, but we find that where there is an investment in education, there is an equalization. One of my slides showed how as education among aboriginals increased, their incomes became more like the average incomes in the population. The same was true for people with disabilities.
I don't know if I'm answering your question. You do see the relationship, and you do see the investment in education paying off in terms of income.
9:40 a.m.
Liberal
Ramesh Sangha Liberal Brampton Centre, ON
You said the student leaves university or school burdened with debt. There are high tuition fees as well. Do you think those make a difference in whether people get an education?
9:40 a.m.
Director, Tourism and Centre for Education Statistics, Statistics Canada
I wanted to put that in, because I was once asked whether, if tuition fees were lower, more people would get an education. Are people not going on to post-secondary because of the costs?
It looks more as though people still are. Enrolments are increasing, but people are coming out with a huge debt at the end of the day. Our national graduate survey looked at graduates two years after graduation, and students at all levels still had very high debt that hadn't been paid off. Maybe it's not specifically a barrier to access, but it is a burden placed on people.
9:40 a.m.
Liberal
Ramesh Sangha Liberal Brampton Centre, ON
On November 4, 2016, Statistics Canada released a labour force survey for the month of October 2016. This study clearly indicates that employment increased by 44,000, yet the majority of those positions were part-time.
Again regarding your study, could you suggest to the committee the possibility of the shift from full-time employment to part-time employment or self-employment?
9:40 a.m.
Director, Tourism and Centre for Education Statistics, Statistics Canada
Recent analysis I have looked at on that topic suggests— for example, I mentioned at the beginning of my presentation the innovative work we're doing to try to understand pathways to education. In the Maritimes, we did that as our pilot. If you look at cohorts as they graduate, the 2006 cohort, the 2007 cohort, and so on, and you look at their first-year earnings in the labour market, you see that first-year graduates in the later cohort are earning less than those from the early cohort were earning.
It does appear from that study that it's taking longer for them to get into full-time, well-paying employment after graduation.
9:40 a.m.
Liberal
Ramesh Sangha Liberal Brampton Centre, ON
How do you compare this trend in Canada with the trends in other OECD countries?
9:40 a.m.
Senior Analyst, Tourism and Centre for Education Statistics, Statistics Canada
Canada actually does relatively well in terms of youth who are not in education and not employed, NEET. The problem is much larger in southern European countries. Canada is at about the OECD average.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
Ramesh Sangha Liberal Brampton Centre, ON
Thank you.
Regarding the OECD studies and Statistics Canada studies, with all three levels of education, youth are doing as well, as you just said, as those in other OECD countries. If Canada is doing well in this situation, then what could you suggest in terms of further improvements we could make to have better education and better jobs for students who are leaving university?
9:45 a.m.
Director, Tourism and Centre for Education Statistics, Statistics Canada
That is the work of our policy department colleagues, to recommend strategies to improve the situation, so I think we will leave that to them.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
Yves Robillard Liberal Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
My question is for Ms. Isaak.
I used to be a teacher in Canada's Far North. I taught in Kuujjuaq, and I was a principal in Akulivik, in Hudson Bay and in Ungava Bay.
My question is this. What challenges do indigenous communities face in terms of access to post-secondary education and vocational training programs? Are there any innovative ways to overcome these obstacles?
9:45 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Education and Social Development Programs and Partnerships, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
That's a good question.
The program is offered by urban communities. I imagine that there are innovative programs in Canada being offered by the communities. However, I don't have any specific examples of programs like that. There are a few communities that are very successful with the post-secondary education program, and there are others that are not. It really depends on how the program is implemented, the support given to youth, and the interaction with young children. So there are some specific issues in each community.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
Yves Robillard Liberal Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
Your initiatives include the first nations and Inuit youth employment strategy. Could you tell us what success you've had with this strategy? How do you explain it?
9:45 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Education and Social Development Programs and Partnerships, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
We have had great success with this program. This year, the first nations and Inuit employment strategy will reach close to 10,000 youth. This program, which funds investments for training first nations and Inuit youth, is very successful.
This year, additional investments in this program will support 3,000 more youth. The number of youth enrolled in the program grows each year. So, it's a very successful program in the communities.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
Yves Robillard Liberal Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
Thank you.
My next question is for Ms. Bertrand.
Initiatives like the labour market agreements for persons with disabilities and the targeted initiative for workers aged 55 to 64 are aimed at improving the employment situation of specific subpopulations in society through services such as skills development and training, career counselling and work experience.
Are there any other innovative ways to improve the employment situation of vulnerable groups? How would these initiatives fit within a national poverty reduction strategy?
9:45 a.m.
Acting Director General, Employment Program Policy and Design Directorate, Department of Employment and Social Development
Thank you for your question.
We have made significant investments in the agreement for persons with disabilities. That's $222 million each year. The provinces and territories contribute an equivalent amount. So the investment is significant.
As I said at the beginning, the provinces and territories are responsible for these programs. They are the ones who develop them and deliver them. Every labour market is different. So it's not just 13 provinces and territories.
There are different needs in different communities. When it comes to being innovative, there's always some way to be innovative and to ensure that employers are a lot more involved. You can train and train, but unless you have a close connection with employers and the kind of skill set that is needed, none of your training programs are going to be successful. When we renewed the LMAPDs last time around, we built that into the agreement. The programs and services are provincial because it's provincial money, but we built a mandatory employer engagement aspect into it. That was really important.
In terms of innovation, we encourage an ongoing process of sharing best practices. We can do a lot better. In terms of all our other work, we're doing very well in sharing best practices and in making sure that those innovative projects are actually getting scaled up and applied in different jurisdictions. On LMAPDs and the other transfers, we have to do a lot better.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
Mark Warawa Conservative Langley—Aldergrove, BC
Thank you very much to the witnesses.
My questions focus on seniors and the needs of seniors with regard to education and the resources to live with dignity.
Statistics Canada, I'm going to be asking about slides 5, 7, and 8. I'll begin with slide 7. It highlights that the number of seniors—and it uses age 45 and over—has more than doubled since 1995. Their careers are changing. They are re-educating and staying in the workforce much longer because Canadians are living longer. Some of their investments and plans for retirement have changed in this changing world, so they are working longer. Slide 7 highlights that.
I don't see seniors mentioned in slide 5. Is there a reason why seniors were omitted?
9:50 a.m.
Director, Tourism and Centre for Education Statistics, Statistics Canada
I don't think there's a particular reason. I'm not sure about literacy rates for seniors and how they related to the overall population. This slide was really meant to highlight demographics where literacy looked like it was important in terms of their risk of low income. It may be related, but it wasn't highlighted for this slide, sorry.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
Mark Warawa Conservative Langley—Aldergrove, BC
We've heard that single female seniors are probably at the highest risk in Canada, because they may have been dependent on a spouse or partner who has now passed on, and they are by themselves with no education or training, living off OAS and GIS. It's important that we focus on that group, which is probably at the highest risk.
ESDC is responsible for developing, managing and delivering social programs and services. Amongst other aspects, ESDC is responsible for developing policies and programs related to learning, skills development and labour market participation, as well as for ensuring labour market efficiency. I think a comment was made about finding the right fit, looking for a return on investment with an aging population. Right now, there are more seniors than youth in Canada; it's a higher demographic. There are more seniors than those 15 and younger. This group is going to be growing very quickly. Over the next 13 years, one in four people will be a senior. The needs for palliative care, geriatrics, and home care present great opportunities for getting people trained and ready to take care of this aging population, and I don't see that happening. I don't see a national plan to prepare for this aging population. Can somebody comment on that? It's a great opportunity.
Slide 9 shows that community and social service workers are at the same wage scale as food service workers. If we are not paying people adequately, if they go to school to be trained, to be involved in geriatrics, palliative care, or senior home care, and they are being paid the same amount they would get in food services, will they make that investment in education and get a return on their investment? How do we prepare, as Canada, if we are not planning for it? Do you have any comments?
9:55 a.m.
Acting Director General, Employment Program Policy and Design Directorate, Department of Employment and Social Development
There were two parts to your question. One was about helping older workers in the workforce, and we have a program for that. Your second question was about labour market information. That's really the topic: making sure Canadians understand where the jobs are, what kind of career opportunities are available for young people, and what those careers pay in the long term.
On the first one, if you allow me, I will speak a bit to the targeted initiative for older workers. Stop me if you know everything about it. We have this program with $25 million a year. Again, it's a transfer to the provinces and the territories. It serves older workers—between the ages of 55 and 64, but there is flexibility around the age group—in small, vulnerable communities, because that's often where the greatest need is. They're single-industry communities, and all the workers are laid off. The skill set is not there. The foundational skills to easily transition into another job or another industry, or even the physical mobility to move somewhere else, are often not there. The targeted initiative for older workers is fairly successful. We have some very good evaluation results: 75% found employment after the intervention, and they found employment in the area they were looking for.
I can give you more data and more stats on what TIOW actually does. It has been studied to a great extent, and a lot of the different interventions that are being put together are based on the sharing of a lot of best practices. It caters to older workers. It includes peer mentoring, learning from each other. It's fairly unique and interesting in the approach it takes. Group-based training is part of it as well. We have something that's very effective in place with the provinces to support older workers.
9:55 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bryan May
Thank you. I'm sorry I keep having to cut you off. I apologize, but we're well past time again.
Yes.