I have about another 30 seconds here. I know that when I'm meeting some of the folks who are there, they're actually really good people who have struggled along the way, but I think one of the biggest challenges I see is the lack of somebody giving them that opportunity. Is there anything you think the federal government can do, in conjunction with private businesses, to encourage this to move forward?

9:50 a.m.

Executive Director and Co-Founder, Pathfinder Youth Centre Society

Ruth Lee

I think we started a good thing by having a wage subsidy. It really encourages employers to, I'll say,“ try before you buy” during the probationary period of work. It helps them with their financial situations, too. We find that the bigger corporations have too much red tape to go through. When you deal with the middle-class, momma-poppa organizations, they're more open to receiving our youth, for sure.

9:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bryan May

Thank you very much.

9:50 a.m.

Liberal

Dan Ruimy Liberal Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC

Thank you very much, Ruth, and you are doing fabulously.

9:50 a.m.

Executive Director and Co-Founder, Pathfinder Youth Centre Society

Ruth Lee

Thank you.

9:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bryan May

We'll go over to MP Long, please, for five minutes.

9:50 a.m.

Liberal

Wayne Long Liberal Saint John—Rothesay, NB

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses. It's nice to see a New Brunswick connection with a few.

My questions I think will be to you, Ms. Smith, and to the Boys and Girls Clubs' Ms. Gouin and Ms. Achan.

I want to talk about early learning and how important that is to break the cycle of poverty. I know in Saint John there's an early learning centre in the south end, St. John the Baptist, that is having some success. It's my belief that as a federal government, aligned with provincial governments, we need to have a higher degree of early learning in our schools. I just wondered if you could elaborate on early learning, Ms. Smith, and how important that would be. Can I have your thoughts on that?

9:50 a.m.

President, Canadian Teachers' Federation

Heather Smith

I can begin by saying I taught kindergarten for 13 years in Bathurst, and that is certainly my experience. I know we see the discrepancy in skills of students arriving in kindergarten, and the statistics are there, because the assessments are done. My experience is in New Brunswick, but we register them a year early so that we can assess them, and then we provide supports for families to access these programs. However, there is no requirement, and not all families are able to take advantage of that.

I'm familiar with St. John the Baptist. I've been there, and certainly they are doing some fabulous work. Early learning is essential. We know that in the first five years of age, stimulation is needed, as are access to reading and literacy, that one-to-one strong relationship with an adult, speaking skills, and language acquisition. All of that is essential. I think we really do need to focus.

I had a teacher one time say to me, “I don't know what you do in elementary, but they come to us and they can't do this, and they can't do that.” I said, “You know, really, they don't come to us equal.” Kids are not coming into school with equality of skills and equality of experiences, and we certainly see that, and we try our best to—

9:50 a.m.

Liberal

Wayne Long Liberal Saint John—Rothesay, NB

I'll just jump in. If you look at some Scandinavian countries, they have three- and four-year-olds in their system. Germany, I believe, takes two-year-olds into their system. So, can you envision a system in Canada, or even some pilots initially, in which we take three- and four-year-olds and put them into the school system? It doesn't have to be totally structured, but it could kind of capture those young minds and develop them there.

9:50 a.m.

President, Canadian Teachers' Federation

Heather Smith

I think what you said is essential, that it not be totally structured.

9:50 a.m.

Liberal

Wayne Long Liberal Saint John—Rothesay, NB

Right.

9:50 a.m.

President, Canadian Teachers' Federation

Heather Smith

I entered teaching kindergarten when New Brunswick brought in in, and it was, I'll say, totally an experience-based grade. That has transitioned. Kindergarten really is the new grade one. Kids are expected to leave reading. I always say they come in as babies and leave reading, and that's a big transition for those kids. Some of them can't even step up into those school buses. I think it's essential. I would say yes to a pilot, but I think we need to move cautiously to make sure that structured academic learning doesn't get pushed further and further to younger ages.

9:50 a.m.

Liberal

Wayne Long Liberal Saint John—Rothesay, NB

Sure.

Can I get comments from you too, Ms. Gouin?

9:55 a.m.

Director, Research and Public Policy, Boys and Girls Clubs of Canada

Dr. Rachel Gouin

Some of our clubs offer early learning programs. The bulk of the youth we see are between six and 12. After-school programs should also be part of an early learning strategy in the sense that it can't all happen in schools. Community organizations have a role to play.

I would just caution that I think the needs of zero to five are very different from those of six to 12. Six- to 12-year-old kids benefit from being outside of school as well, and from making connections with community members. Those are important things. If we put them all together, then we don't meet the needs of the older kids. Also, while having early childhood educators is very important for zero to five, the six to 12 benefit from having young leaders, such as Achan, who don't necessarily have an ECE degree but who can contribute and who want to give back to their communities. Having that flexibility so that you can create youth employment or youth jobs that can serve the community and youth can be mentors for young people is also very important.

9:55 a.m.

Liberal

Wayne Long Liberal Saint John—Rothesay, NB

Okay.

I'll go back to you, Ms. Smith.

9:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bryan May

You have about 30 seconds.

9:55 a.m.

Liberal

Wayne Long Liberal Saint John—Rothesay, NB

I want to get your comments on financial literacy and how important you think that would be in the school system.

9:55 a.m.

President, Canadian Teachers' Federation

Heather Smith

It needs to not be a stand-alone thing. We have to teach financial literacy. We have to look at how we can incorporate it within what is already happening. It's happening informally now, but I think it can't be an add-on, because there is just not time in the day or time in the structure of schools. It needs to be worked into what we're already doing with math or those kinds of areas.

9:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bryan May

You have two seconds.

9:55 a.m.

Director, Research and Public Policy, Boys and Girls Clubs of Canada

Dr. Rachel Gouin

We have a partnership that is offering financial literacy in the after-school hours, so we can help schools.

9:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bryan May

Thank you.

9:55 a.m.

Liberal

Wayne Long Liberal Saint John—Rothesay, NB

Thank you.

9:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bryan May

Thank you.

We'll go to MP Zimmer for five minutes.

9:55 a.m.

Conservative

Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll just tell you a bit about myself. I am a former teacher from northern B.C. One of the things I did as a former carpenter was work in trades, but I also have two degrees, so I understand both sides of the experience, and I actually wrote some of the courses that Lynne talked about, on transitioning from school to trades. I wrote a course actually explaining that and helping kids to bridge that gap

. I'm really interested in what you talk about in terms of the strategy, because this is an important gap.

One concern I have, which I think is paramount to many of us here, is aboriginal education specifically and the barriers to post-secondary education.

This is my question for Cham. The AFN website lists some barriers to post-secondary education. Number one is the lack of money or government funding, listed by 27 out of 100 people; 14 list problems with alcohol, drugs, and pregnancy; another 14 say that post-secondary education is not being encouraged. Ten are not used to living out of the community. Concerning lack of academic qualifications, meaning graduating from high school—and we talked at the last meeting about that as a significant barrier to the next level—seven say they are not very interested; another seven are not prepared for post-secondary education; six say it is too far away; and two list “other” as the problem.

I see organizations such as the Boys and Girls Clubs especially helping with that gap.

Here is a simple question. Do you monitor...I hate to say success rates, because we can measure this factor in so many ways. When a kid who really had no future becomes a kid who has a big smile and just loves life, that's success too. Do you measure that transition from being a student who you would consider to be in poverty to one who is moving on to post-secondary education? Do you as an organization measure that?

That's a big one for....

9:55 a.m.

Director, Research and Public Policy, Boys and Girls Clubs of Canada

Dr. Rachel Gouin

We are implementing new ways of measuring that across the country. We have 96 clubs, and it's difficult, but we are working on better tracking.

We have data on the Rogers Raising the Grade program, which is measuring outcomes like that. I don't have the stats with me.