Evidence of meeting #31 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was education.
A video is available from Parliament.
9:45 a.m.
Fellow, Metcalf Foundation
The same thing is true when we look at our social assistance programs. Again the federal government can take a leadership role with the provinces in trying to get some national standards in place.
We need to have programs that allow people to transition to the workforce and not try to take money away from people as they make that transition. Our current disability system with those 10 different disability systems don't work together. They all came into place at different times. Especially in that area is a place where we can start to look at that.
Let me give you one example.
9:45 a.m.
Fellow, Metcalf Foundation
On social assistance, for example, if someone has reported their income for the month—if they are working part time and still need to be on benefits—and then the boss calls them up and says, “We want you to come in for an extra shift that we hadn't counted on.” That immediately becomes an overpayment in that system. It's way too closely managed, and there is much too much confiscation of benefits.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
9:45 a.m.
NDP
Niki Ashton NDP Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB
Thank you.
Thank you to all of our witnesses today for your very insightful testimony on our study on poverty.
Ms. Arte, I want to begin with you, and thank you for your very powerful presentation here today.
The message that you made very clearly is that times are changing for young people in our country. You raise some shocking statistics that 42% of young people live in their parents' basement, a number that has skyrocketed over the last 20 years. You talked about how the amount of debt owed collectively by young people in this country, and by some older young people, is over $20 billion. You talked about the average student debt being $28,000.
I am an older millennial and having graduated from university with my first degree over 10 years ago, this reality is different from what I experienced. It's clear to me that, year after year, young people in Canada are paying a higher price to simply do what we expect of them, which is to get an education.
Today we're talking about how we can come forward with a strategy to support Canadians who are trying to get out of poverty. We've heard from you that for a lot of young people, getting an education means struggling in poverty and not seeing a way out, given these levels of student debt. This is a reality that we've never seen before in this country.
I want to thank you for raising those alarm bells, alarm bells that those of us who spend time with peers hear about on a daily basis.
First of all—and I realize it came up already in the question of how we could possibly afford this—given the work that you've done, along with so many organizations that support the vision that you've brought forward today around free education, I wonder if you could talk to us a bit about where the money will come from.
9:50 a.m.
National Chairperson, Canadian Federation of Students
Thank you for that.
I really want to appreciate the emphasis that this is the most indebted generation in Canadian history. I believe we are in a crisis when it comes to access to education; furthermore, when 70% of new jobs require some form of post-secondary education, students are put in a very difficult position when they are unable to afford it.
When we understand the question around public funding for post-secondary education, it's important to know that public funding for public services such as education is at an all-time low, particularly when we compare funding levels of today with those of the 1940s. Generations before us enjoyed a much more publicly funded system of post-secondary education.
Oftentimes we look at how much politicians had to pay for their post-secondary education. We know that our Prime Minister paid close to $1,700 when he was attending post-secondary. The premier here in Ontario, where there are the highest tuition fees in the country, paid closer to $700 per academic year when she was attending university.
Evidently, when we look at today, the national average for tuition fees is well over $6,000. In Ontario, it's well over $8,000 per academic term. To attend is very unaffordable and inaccessible to young people.
On the question of where the funding comes from, I think there was a time when our federal government actually prioritized funding to post-secondary education. That was over 60 years ago. Today our generation is facing the consequences of progressive devaluing and disinvestments for post-secondary education.
I think budgets are about priorities. We could and should invest in a progressive taxation system in this country that doesn't benefit the wealthiest, that doesn't provide tax incentives and tax loopholes for Canada's wealthiest corporations to evade billions of dollars in taxes every single year. Beyond that, I also think our government has been able to prioritize funding on the military, for example, when it has found that to be a priority.
I think that investing in youth, investing in the next generation, adequately providing young people with the skills, education, and training they need to be successful in today's labour market should be the upmost priority. From a government that spoke a lot about youth issues in the last federal election, the young people expect and deserve more when it comes to funding for post-secondary education.
9:50 a.m.
NDP
Niki Ashton NDP Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB
Thank you.
You talked about the 2% cap on the PSSSP, something that has come up a number of times in this committee. Could we hear a bit more about that? Perhaps you could share some feedback, whether personal or systemic, concerning how this cap has impacted first nations, Inuit, and Métis people's ability to access their treaty right to education and their right to education, and what the repercussions are on indigenous people in communities
9:50 a.m.
National Chairperson, Canadian Federation of Students
I'll be very quick, then.
Removing the cap on the post-secondary student support program, which I would emphasize is a federal program for public funding of first nations' access to post-secondary education—a guaranteed treaty right, and something that is very much cited within the truth and reconciliation process, a process that this government has signed on to, historically and I think very proudly from the perspective of our federation—is a commitment that has yet to be actually fulfilled.
When we think about the lack of funding for first nations, Inuit, and Métis learners to access post-secondary education, this can look like the very reality that despite having had access to high school, despite having the grades, the will, and the passion to perhaps bring back a skill from university or college to their communities, too often indigenous learners are not given the opportunity to attend post-secondary education because of lack of those funds.
Beyond that, because of limited funding as well, band councils are making very difficult decisions with the very limited pool of funding, such that they are choosing to send students for smaller programs for shorter years. I've met too many young indigenous learners across the country who have been funded for perhaps a year or two of their education and who have been forced to drop out because they no longer have funds to allow them to actually finish their education.
That's a snapshot of those opportunities, but I think there is a missed opportunity to invest in the future of indigenous youth, particularly when we consider they are the fastest-growing population in our country today.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
Filomena Tassi Liberal Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON
I would like to begin by thanking each and every one of you today. I have to say that the presentations were absolutely fantastic and very inspiring for me as a member of this committee.
I'm hoping to get through three questions. My first two are going to go to Ms. Pace and Ms. Patterson, and they have to do with women in poverty, asking you to talk about your experience first of all concerning the issues and obstacles women are facing.
ESDC states that more women than men live in poverty. What are the factors that contribute to this?
9:55 a.m.
Adviser, Peel Poverty Reduction Strategy Committee
Because part of our work includes the social services programs in Ontario, we see, all the time, the impact that poverty has on women. Really, it's the time off that they have to take when they have children, child care, making a decision between whether they pay for child care and transportation or stay home with the kids. Most communities have a wait-list for affordable child care, so often they're having to sacrifice careers.
There are unique circumstances that many women face if they're leaving or having to escape domestic violence. Other things are wait-lists, finding appropriate housing, safe housing that will take them and their children, often outside of their community.
Again, it comes back to wait-lists for affordable housing. Many communities have extensive wait-lists, even for people who are experiencing domestic or other types of violence. Women are making choices to stay in a situation that's not safe, or to go to emergency shelters. We know that often the conditions in emergency shelters are not the best.
When they're ready to get back into the workforce, what is that first opportunity? They may not have recent experience.
9:55 a.m.
Adviser, Peel Poverty Reduction Strategy Committee
They may be in a new community. How do social services departments like ours help to facilitate that?
The example we provided of government providing those initial placements, those entry-level opportunities, particularly for women is a great example of a role we all could play. That can happen with any level of government.
9:55 a.m.
Liberal
Filomena Tassi Liberal Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON
Okay, I want to focus on the aspect of child care, because I know that affordability and finding good-quality child care is important. For my own experience, I lost my nephew at 18 months. He was in a private child care facility. This is extremely important for women.
What do you think that the federal government could do to assist women who are trying to access affordable, good-quality child care?
9:55 a.m.
Co-Chair, Peel Poverty Reduction Strategy Committee
That's a very good question. Certainly, we would all love to see universal child care, but that gets to the fact of the cost and who's going to pay for all of that. Affordability is a factor.
I know in Peel we try very much to keep the rates down. We are the system managers for early learning and child care. Most municipalities have that role. That's something we play a key role in. Certainly, quality is a huge concern. We spend a lot of time ensuring that practices are such that quality is there.
We have to compliment our provincial government with respect to the Ministry of Education. There has been quite a modernization and transformation in the early years' sector to have consistent programming, etc.
9:55 a.m.
Liberal
Filomena Tassi Liberal Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON
What do you recommend the federal government do with respect to this issue?
9:55 a.m.
Co-Chair, Peel Poverty Reduction Strategy Committee
There certainly is a push to make child care more affordable. It doesn't mean it has to be universal. That will not happen overnight, but there certainly needs to be a dropping down of those rates. As you know, there are mortgage payments for the young folks.
November 24th, 2016 / 9:55 a.m.
Liberal
Filomena Tassi Liberal Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON
Okay, thank you.
My next question is going to go to the Meticulon group. Everything that I've heard today with respect to the hiring of individuals with disabilities has been absolutely fantastic—from Mr. Wafer, with your contributions, as well as those from Mr. Stapleton.
I'm intrigued about what you suggested you do at Meticulon, this process that you've come up with. I think that's brilliant in order to determine the fit. We know success is going to depend on that fit and it working.
What can the federal government do to help businesses buy into hiring persons with disabilities? We know that if the fit is right, it's a win-win. What recommendations can you give to this committee in that regard?
9:55 a.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Meticulon
Joy has some great insights about how it works. I think what the federal government can do is this. We can work together with other businesses that are engaged in this process, that are trying to get people with disabilities working and out of poverty, to document the real business returns. We can help work with the social services agencies and the other people who are already working to place people, to provide more resources around meeting real business needs with these folks. It's not just putting people into work because they need to work.
If the federal government were to reinvest some of the funds that we've put currently into some of the social services programs that we operate, and say, “Okay, let's work with people with disabilities to not only find out what they want to do, but what they can do”, then you could go to the business community and say, “Okay, here's what's happening. We've tooled these people up. They're educated, they're not educated, but here's their skill set. Here's what they can really do.”
I'm on the board of the Canadian Association for Supported Employment. One of the biggest challenges that the social services agencies in this country have is actually finding the right job for the right person.
10 a.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Meticulon
If there were more proof that was quantified and demonstrated that it works from a business perspective, that would motivate businesses to do this. The federal government has the resources to do massive studies to document and prove the business return for doing this. Then, if those trickle down into “How do you actually do this? Here are are some resources. Here are best practices. Here is the way this really works in getting the right fit”, that would be a resource that industry could use and take from the federal government, because the federal government has the resources to invest in that process.
