Evidence of meeting #47 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was north.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Marie-Christine Vanier  Communications Officer, Kativik Municipal Housing Bureau
Linda Roy Makiuk  Administrative Technician, Kativik Municipal Housing Bureau
Françoise Bouchard  Director, Public Health, Nunavik Regional Board of Health and Social Services

Noon

Conservative

Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC

I'll ask that of Françoise.

The reason I brought this issue up is that one thing I think we've seen consistently, with our poverty reduction strategy, is that the key to having somebody succeed in life, to getting off the streets, or—you name it—getting out of their situation of poverty, is giving them a purpose in their life, whether it's a job.... It could be as simple as a job. It could be a career. It could be a multitude of simple things, actually.

I'm just concerned about the people of Kuujjuaq, because their original purpose in life up there, the reason they were up in the northern regions of Quebec, was to survive as hunters and gatherers. That's where they lived. So what can the new purpose be for the people of northern Quebec? I have some questions at hand here—what's the main industry in Kuujjuaq; what's the unemployment rate—but what do you see? What can we give them as a sense of purpose?

There are phrases we've used before: give somebody a fish, feed them for a day; teach them how to fish and feed them for a lifetime. How do we feed the people of Kuujjuaq for a lifetime?

Françoise.

Noon

Director, Public Health, Nunavik Regional Board of Health and Social Services

Dr. Françoise Bouchard

I wish my colleague were here. All I can talk to you about is my perspective as a halunak.

Noon

Conservative

Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC

Absolutely.

Noon

Director, Public Health, Nunavik Regional Board of Health and Social Services

Dr. Françoise Bouchard

I don't think people want to go back to the way it was 100 or 150 years ago. That's not the reality of today. What they're looking for is an ability or capacity to marry the traditional life with the modern life of today.

How do we achieve that? We have to give them the time. We have to give them the capacity to do it.

How do we better marry the two? In the case of housing, we came up with the solution of these great bungalows with three bedrooms. It was a case of, “That's it. We're building those for you.” In fact, we need to sit down together and let them choose how they want to build a community, what type of housing, from the start.

Unfortunately, we have gone in saying that we knew what was best for people. That's not the way to go. We need to let people decide what is best for them. So I'm not going to answer your question.

12:05 p.m.

Conservative

Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC

I want to interject here before you finish that.

You talk about their indicating what kind of housing they would like, but I would also suggest it's a question of how they can sustain it and pay for it themselves. I think an important part of home ownership is having made a contribution to it rather than having somebody else buy it for them, let's say.

How do you solve that, too, so they become participants not only in the selection of the house but also in paying for it?

12:05 p.m.

Director, Public Health, Nunavik Regional Board of Health and Social Services

Dr. Françoise Bouchard

We know that one key is education. We know that the capacity to acquire the skills and competencies of the jobs already in the north.... There are a lot of jobs in the north; we cannot say there are no jobs. But we have to support the capacity and the factors favouring people getting access to those jobs. Often we don't give them the right conditions.

Housing is a good condition to give people so they have a safe environment to learn in. That's the first step: a safe, secure environment to learn in so they stay in school, so they have the capacity that if they go to school in the south, they know they can come back and have a place to live and enjoy both the traditional ways of life and....

There are people who succeed in doing that today. There are people who do, but it's not everybody. Everybody does not have the ability to do that.

The challenge is that we have to start somewhere. It's all areas. In health care services, we know that the majority of employment here is held by people from down south who come to work up north. Our objective is that one day those jobs will be filled by people in the north. To do that, we have to facilitate access to education and be creative in how we give that education. Right now, for someone living at home in the north, growing up in a small community and having go to Montreal to finish their schooling, it is a big, big change. It's an incredible change. You have to imagine it for yourselves. Let's say you grow up here and are sent to a small community in Africa. You are told, “This is where you have to live for the next three to four years to acquire your skills.” I don't think many of us would stay.

Let's do more to facilitate education and programs in the north that are adapted to the north. In our certification process in the south, we have become very rigid, with the claim of the need to ensure safety and benefit and everything else. I understand that. However, we need to understand that we also could be more flexible in the communities to facilitate education programs up north. There is the idea of having a college up north, having facilities where people can learn in their communities in the north. We have to be flexible there.

I can give you an example of that, I think. We have to work with the vision of people being up there and wanting to stay in their communities. They want to grow there. They want to live there. They want to earn a living there. They also want to practice what has built their identity, which is the land, going onto the land and accessing country food. That's part of the cultural identity that is a safety net for suicide prevention and mental health. It's all part of that.

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bryan May

Thank you.

MP Dhillon, you have six minutes.

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

Anju Dhillon Liberal Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC

Good afternoon, and welcome.

My question is addressed to anyone who would like to answer.

In your opinion, what steps can we take to improve the housing situation in that community? What can the federal government do?

12:05 p.m.

Communications Officer, Kativik Municipal Housing Bureau

Marie-Christine Vanier

At the risk of repeating myself, clearly increasing the number of houses would help to lessen the overcrowding in other homes.

Ms. Bouchard raised another matter, that of education. Recently I became aware of the fact that it is really not easy to leave your family and your usual lifestyle, to no longer hunt, fish and do things like that.

We leave all that to go to study in Montreal, but once we get there we don't do anything, we are no longer connected to our family, we have no contact and we are away from our environment. It really tears you up, and it is one of the reasons why people don't finish their schooling or don't leave to go and study in the first place. It's really hard.

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

Anju Dhillon Liberal Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC

It might also be said that there is a lack of social infrastructure. Ms. Bouchard mentioned an alcohol problem. Is there also a detox centre?

12:10 p.m.

Director, Public Health, Nunavik Regional Board of Health and Social Services

Dr. Françoise Bouchard

There are programs, and there is a project regarding that. In fact, I think the intent is to ask the federal government for a detox centre project in Kuujjuaq.

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

Anju Dhillon Liberal Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC

You feel it is important to have this type of infrastructure in the communities.

12:10 p.m.

Director, Public Health, Nunavik Regional Board of Health and Social Services

Dr. Françoise Bouchard

Yes, it's important for the communities.

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

Anju Dhillon Liberal Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC

Do you have something to add, Ms. Vanier?

12:10 p.m.

Communications Officer, Kativik Municipal Housing Bureau

12:10 p.m.

Director, Public Health, Nunavik Regional Board of Health and Social Services

Dr. Françoise Bouchard

I would like to add something. First, we have to eliminate the famous backlog, and come to an agreement with Quebec, that is, governments have to agree; but there must also be agreement with current Inuit leaders so that they take their place and become eventual leaders in this area. We must agree with regional organizations regarding the future growth of a program so that it does not just last for one year, but several, and we have to find a way of settling all of that for the future with the local organizations.

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

Anju Dhillon Liberal Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC

Earlier you mentioned that there was elder abuse. Is that a recent situation? If not, has it existed for a long time? What can we do to improve the situation and prevent these cases of abuse?

12:10 p.m.

Director, Public Health, Nunavik Regional Board of Health and Social Services

Dr. Françoise Bouchard

We don't talk about that sort of situation very much. We know it exists and we acknowledge it, but as for any case of abuse, very often the first step is to recognize that it is happening. We live in a society that recognizes that we have problems and that we need to deal with them; the communities are starting to take themselves in hand. We have to make plans, that is clear. We don't always have structured plans yet.

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

Anju Dhillon Liberal Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC

Ms. Vanier, you mentioned earlier that in Nunavik the cost of living was 148 times higher than in the rest of Quebec. Could you explain that figure, briefly?

12:10 p.m.

Communications Officer, Kativik Municipal Housing Bureau

Marie-Christine Vanier

Yes, it is 148 times higher.

In fact, that figure is taken from a study done by Gérard Duhaime of Laval University entitled “Cost of Living in Nunavik”. I could provide you with copies if you like.

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

Anju Dhillon Liberal Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC

Yes.

12:10 p.m.

Communications Officer, Kativik Municipal Housing Bureau

Marie-Christine Vanier

So the figure comes from that study. That group of researchers studied people's consumption and their various expenses over a long period. They collected invoices and produced a report on the consumption of the Inuit in Nunavik.

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

Anju Dhillon Liberal Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC

Is 148 times higher, or 148%?

12:10 p.m.

Communications Officer, Kativik Municipal Housing Bureau

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

Anju Dhillon Liberal Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC

Okay. You said “times“ and I was a bit confused.

Do I have some time?