Evidence of meeting #51 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was welding.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Alicia Ibbitson  As an Individual
Dan Tadic  Executive Director, Canadian Welding Association
Roch Lafrance  Secretary General, Union des travailleuses et travailleurs accidentés ou malades
Nicola Cherry  Professor, Department of Medicine, University of Alberta

12:45 p.m.

NDP

Brigitte Sansoucy NDP Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC

I would say it's even society as a whole.

I introduced a bill to develop a poverty reduction strategy. I was pleasantly surprised when economic development stakeholders and retail business owners approached me to say that they were happy about the proposal. For every woman who earns a lower wage, who is penalized, for every worker whose income decreases, an entire region pays the price. We know these workers often earn lower wages. They necessarily spend their money in their region. Every dollar of lost income means less money spent in the region.

If this bill passes, Canada-wide consultations will be undertaken. Given your expertise, which stakeholders in Quebec should be consulted for more in-depth input on the regime?

12:45 p.m.

Secretary General, Union des travailleuses et travailleurs accidentés ou malades

Roch Lafrance

It would be important to speak with the public health authorities. Although they do not administer the program or the benefits, they do manage all the medical infrastructure. When I say “medical”, it involves the associated risk analysis. All kinds of scientists are working in that area.

I would also recommend speaking with Quebec's commission, which administers the program, as well as the Institut de recherche Robert-Sauvé en santé et en sécurité du travail, which does a lot of research in the area.

I think it's a good idea to speak to the two sides, as well. What do employers—I have no objection to consulting employers—and unions think? They are the stakeholders in the workplace who see how the program is administered.

I should point out that the program gives rise to very little in the way of court involvement. Very few legal challenges are initiated as compared with the occupational injury side of things, for instance. Very few disputes occur in relation to the program. A lot of people in Quebec are involved, and they could lend a hand. Another important group are the researchers who helped set up the program and continue to work on it today.

12:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bryan May

Thank you.

MP Ruimy, please.

12:50 p.m.

Liberal

Dan Ruimy Liberal Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC

Thank you very much, everybody.

There have been a lot of interesting conversations, especially around the CCB, Ms. Ibbitson. That is something that bears looking at, because it doesn't actually cost us anything to make sure that people get their child benefit when they have their child.

The original motion by Mr. Gerretsen had to do with a woman who was in the welding industry. I hear that our parliamentary secretary, Monsieur Lauzon, used to teach welding in a different life. With permission from the committee, I would like to give my time to Monsieur Lauzon.

12:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bryan May

Thank you.

Do we have permission from around the table? Agreed? That's fantastic.

Monsieur Lauzon.

12:50 p.m.

Liberal

Stéphane Lauzon Liberal Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC

Thank you very much.

I'd like to thank the committee for giving me this time. I'm going to take advantage of it.

I taught welding for nearly 20 years. I worked with women's groups, groups specializing in the integration of women. We focused a lot on integration in the educational setting, as well as on the possibility of women becoming pregnant, even during training. We were trained to support these women.

I later became a construction project manager. I worked just as much with joiners as I did with every type of tradesperson. On some construction sites, we had workers from 16 to 20 different trades, which more and more women were joining. That gives rise to concerns, with occupational health and safety being very important.

My question is about specific cases. Do you think Bill C-243 has room for exceptions such as exposure to radiation, X-rays, and ultraviolet radiation in trades? The first three months of pregnancy are critical to fetal development.

The question is for both Mr. Lafrance and Mr. Tadic.

12:50 p.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Welding Association

Dan Tadic

This is really a medical question. I wouldn't have any specific information, other than what's in the CSA W117 safety standards. There's some information there in terms of what the rules and regulations are regarding people who are welding, but it's in general terms and not specifically related to pregnant females involved in welding trades.

12:50 p.m.

Liberal

Stéphane Lauzon Liberal Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC

Very good.

Mr. Lafrance, what do you think?

12:50 p.m.

Secretary General, Union des travailleuses et travailleurs accidentés ou malades

Roch Lafrance

In Quebec, the legislation does not define any specific risk. It does not, for instance, prohibit exposure to radiation. Obviously, doctors are the ones who can and will determine that. I know that in some countries, Germany, Switzerland, and Belgium, for example—

12:50 p.m.

Liberal

Stéphane Lauzon Liberal Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC

In Belgium, yes.

12:50 p.m.

Secretary General, Union des travailleuses et travailleurs accidentés ou malades

Roch Lafrance

—the legislation stipulates that pregnant women cannot be exposed to those kinds of working conditions, and various other types of risks are assessed as they arise.

12:50 p.m.

Liberal

Stéphane Lauzon Liberal Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC

Ultimately, that is more or less what I am asking. Do you think a bill like this one could incorporate conditions that pose direct risks, as supported by research, to remove certain pregnant workers from their workplace automatically?

12:50 p.m.

Secretary General, Union des travailleuses et travailleurs accidentés ou malades

Roch Lafrance

I don't know what to tell you. In the 1980s, the Supreme Court determined that such matters fell within the area of labour relations and were therefore under the shared jurisdiction of the federal and provincial governments. That is why the preventive withdrawal from the workplace of a worker who is pregnant or nursing, in Quebec, does not apply to federally regulated employees. In response to your question about whether federal legislation should incorporate specific conditions, I would say that the Supreme Court's decision would likely be the same. In other words, preventive withdrawal could apply to federal employees, but could not be imposed on the provinces.

12:50 p.m.

Liberal

Stéphane Lauzon Liberal Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC

I see.

12:50 p.m.

Secretary General, Union des travailleuses et travailleurs accidentés ou malades

Roch Lafrance

I would have a problem with incorporating such a provision in this particular piece of legislation.

12:50 p.m.

Liberal

Stéphane Lauzon Liberal Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC

I have another training-related question. Do you think our professional and technical training programs should go further and focus more on preparing women for non-traditional occupations, such as welding? For instance, it could perhaps become mandatory for women to disclose that they were pregnant when enrolling in certain training programs. That might avoid some problems.

Clearly, when a child is born with birth defects or disabilities, it is extremely costly for the government for many years, and it changes a person's life. The mother often has to stop working to take care of the child, and a whole slew of consequences come into play, and your earlier calculations do not take those into account.

Do you think that, from the get-go, we could use professional and technical training programs to establish very specific rules so that mothers at risk of giving birth to children with difficulties wouldn't have to face situations like the one I described?

12:55 p.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Welding Association

Dan Tadic

Are you talking about inadvertent exposure to welding radiation?

12:55 p.m.

Liberal

Stéphane Lauzon Liberal Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC

Yes, at school, directly at school.

12:55 p.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Welding Association

Dan Tadic

If you walk into any plant where welding is being done, there is usually some screening protection equipment. It's designed to protect passersby as well as welders, who are protected with proper clothing, for example, leather welding jackets, leather aprons, safety gear, and that kind of stuff.

12:55 p.m.

Liberal

Stéphane Lauzon Liberal Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC

Thank you very much.

12:55 p.m.

Secretary General, Union des travailleuses et travailleurs accidentés ou malades

Roch Lafrance

I don't know what to tell you. Should women be required to disclose that they are pregnant? It's not something we've ever talked about. That is what I would say.

12:55 p.m.

Liberal

Stéphane Lauzon Liberal Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC

Thank you very much.

12:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bryan May

That's time.

Before we wrap up though, I want to ask a quick question, if you'll indulge me. We kind of skirted around this a bit, but we really didn't ask the pointed and sometimes difficult question. Are women paid the same as men in this profession?

12:55 p.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Welding Association

Dan Tadic

Yes, they are. If they have the same skill set, yes.

12:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bryan May

Okay, in terms of pregnancy and the time away, how much of an impact does that have on their pay in relation to men over the course of a career?