Evidence of meeting #51 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was welding.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Alicia Ibbitson  As an Individual
Dan Tadic  Executive Director, Canadian Welding Association
Roch Lafrance  Secretary General, Union des travailleuses et travailleurs accidentés ou malades
Nicola Cherry  Professor, Department of Medicine, University of Alberta

12:40 p.m.

Liberal

Ramesh Sangha Liberal Brampton Centre, ON

Okay.

You think those forms should actually be filled before you are leaving for the pregnancy or before the delivery?

12:40 p.m.

As an Individual

Alicia Ibbitson

I mean before the delivery.

12:40 p.m.

Liberal

Ramesh Sangha Liberal Brampton Centre, ON

Forms should be filled and payment can start after delivery.

12:40 p.m.

As an Individual

Alicia Ibbitson

That's correct.

12:40 p.m.

Liberal

Ramesh Sangha Liberal Brampton Centre, ON

What suggestion do you give to our committee to enhance that program?

12:40 p.m.

As an Individual

Alicia Ibbitson

I suggest that women be allowed to fill out the paperwork two months before their baby is born.

12:40 p.m.

Liberal

Ramesh Sangha Liberal Brampton Centre, ON

Okay.

12:40 p.m.

As an Individual

Alicia Ibbitson

I'm not saying that they should actually receive a child benefit before they have a child, but all the administrative part would be done so that when they have a child, they can receive it as soon as possible.

12:40 p.m.

Liberal

Ramesh Sangha Liberal Brampton Centre, ON

Mr. Tadic talked about supplementary funding. Do you agree with that?

12:40 p.m.

As an Individual

Alicia Ibbitson

Is that supplementary funding for people who, while they're pregnant, have to do a job that has a lower wage?

12:40 p.m.

Liberal

Ramesh Sangha Liberal Brampton Centre, ON

Yes.

12:40 p.m.

As an Individual

Alicia Ibbitson

I'm not sure that it would be the best distribution of funding. If you have a very high-paid position and you're taking a slightly lower pay, I'm not sure that it would be the best use of funding for the government to use money so that someone can get that extra $5 an hour, as opposed to somebody who can't even live on maternity leave benefits.

I understand that there's—

12:40 p.m.

Liberal

Ramesh Sangha Liberal Brampton Centre, ON

Good. Thank you.

What other options do you have to suggest today for a woman who already has a hazardous job and who cannot do that hazardous job and cannot go to another job?

12:40 p.m.

As an Individual

Alicia Ibbitson

They should be able to take their maternity leave earlier, with the 15 weeks or the 12 weeks. But if you have a strenuous job and your first trimester is a more vulnerable time.... I've never heard of the program that the gentleman from Quebec was speaking about, but that seems like an excellent program, and an expensive one as well. It's difficult when you work in a hazardous job environment and you have to make the choice to work somewhere else.

12:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bryan May

Excellent. Thank you.

Now we move over to Madame Sansoucy, please, for six minutes.

12:40 p.m.

NDP

Brigitte Sansoucy NDP Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Lafrance, even though the bill's sponsor withdrew clauses 6 and 7, you said the proposed changes to the Employment Insurance Act weren't all that helpful. The committee has talked about that. It's a consideration that the consultations need to take into account.

You stressed the importance of not penalizing women. That is all the more important given that, overall, women earn less than men. It's important to look at the impact from a whole-of-career standpoint. If women go on maternity leave a number of times during their career and are penalized financially each time, they will be no better off.

I'd like to get a better sense of your position. How could an amendment be helpful?

12:45 p.m.

Secretary General, Union des travailleuses et travailleurs accidentés ou malades

Roch Lafrance

We are looking at the last 15 weeks before the expected delivery date because that is what the bill talks about.

The reason we think it has almost no benefit is that, according to the figures in Quebec, only 5% to 6% of pregnant women receive preventive withdrawal benefits after their 23rd week, so before their last 15 weeks. Professor Cherry talked about that earlier. In Quebec, three-quarters of preventive withdrawals occur during the first trimester, in other words, during the first 13 weeks. The bill before you allows maternity benefits to be paid beginning 15 weeks before the expected date of delivery. In its budget, the government said that it was going to extend the maternity benefit period and allow women to claim maternity benefits up to 12 weeks before their delivery date.

12:45 p.m.

NDP

Brigitte Sansoucy NDP Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC

I see.

April 4th, 2017 / 12:45 p.m.

Secretary General, Union des travailleuses et travailleurs accidentés ou malades

Roch Lafrance

That gives only three extra weeks, and very few women will need to claim benefits then.

12:45 p.m.

NDP

Brigitte Sansoucy NDP Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC

A change was made to allow parental benefits to be claimed over a period of 18 months at a rate of 33%, but the impact of doing so will be felt come retirement.

The witness from British Columbia just repeated that Quebec's program is expensive. Is that a common myth?

12:45 p.m.

Secretary General, Union des travailleuses et travailleurs accidentés ou malades

Roch Lafrance

It does appear to be a myth. I gave the figures earlier, referring to 0.2% of payroll costs. If we compare, then, with employment insurance... We also have parental insurance—

12:45 p.m.

NDP

Brigitte Sansoucy NDP Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC

You mean Quebec's parental insurance plan.

12:45 p.m.

Secretary General, Union des travailleuses et travailleurs accidentés ou malades

Roch Lafrance

Exactly. It's the equivalent of the federal maternity program—

12:45 p.m.

NDP

Brigitte Sansoucy NDP Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC

—for maternity benefits.

12:45 p.m.

Secretary General, Union des travailleuses et travailleurs accidentés ou malades

Roch Lafrance

—and the parental benefits program after the child is born. That costs six times more than the preventive withdrawal regime.

It's also a societal choice. Are we willing to run the risk of pregnant women or their children becoming sick? Working conditions can have a major impact on the fetus. We have a choice to make. We can decide that it's not that serious and let people will deal with it.

Who pays the price if Canada doesn't have an equivalent program? Women do. They have to stop working at 8, 12, or 15 weeks before their expected delivery date, depending on where things stand with the bill or before the bill. Women are the ones who have to bear the costs.