Evidence of meeting #53 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ministers.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Louise Levonian  Deputy Minister, Department of Employment and Social Development
Lori Sterling  Deputy Minister, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development

1:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bryan May

I don't quite have that much power yet.

1:25 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

I do have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

Just to clarify, we're not talking about a House of Commons interruption of committee proceedings that prevented the ministers from finishing their testimony. They were told in writing that they would be here until two o'clock. It's 1:25. There are 35 minutes left in the period that was allocated for the ministers to appear.

I appreciate that they might want to get out the back door as quickly as possible rather than answer those questions, but let's not create a phony pretense based on false logistics. The House of Commons, for the millions of fans who are watching back home, is 90 seconds down the hallway. They could be back here by now. They could have taken a round of questioning by now.

1:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bryan May

I cannot speak for the ministers. You, being a former minister, know perfectly well that there are things that they need to do prior to question period. My only assumption is that they are preparing for question period. I'm not going to speculate as to why they aren't here.

Can we please get back to the reason we are here today?

I'd like to welcome—I apologize, I didn't recognize you to begin with—the witnesses now at the table from the Department of Employment and Social Development: Louise Levonian, deputy minister; Lori Sterling, deputy minister, labour program; and Leslie MacLean, senior associate deputy minister and chief operating officer for Service Canada. We also have, I believe, chief financial officer, ESDC, Mark Perlman.

Mr. Zielonka, CFO and senior vice-president, capital markets, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, is also here.

Welcome to all of you.

Did I miss anybody? I'm sorry. We also have Mr. Evan Siddall, president and chief executive officer, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, as well.

How could I forget you, sir? You've been here so often that I just assumed that we would have announced you already.

I believe we ended with cutting off Brigitte Sansoucy. She still actually has a few minutes left, but seeing that she is not here, we'll move on to Mr. Long for six minutes.

Mr. Long, you're up.

1:25 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Long Liberal Saint John—Rothesay, NB

Thank you, Chair, and thank you to our witnesses.

Again, I apologize for the tone and line of questioning from my counterpart across from me, earlier.

When I decided to run for politics, I wanted to give back to my community. I was involved with sports and hockey before that, and we did certain things like food drives, cereal drives, and coat drives to try to give back to those in need.

I felt compelled to try to do more so I wanted to run, and some of the first places I went when I started my campaign were priority neighbourhoods. I started knocking on doors and talking to families. Saint John leads the country in child poverty. We have a lot of issues with affordable housing, and certainly lots of challenges. In fact, some of our priority neighbourhoods, wards 3 and 4 have child poverty rates of 50% to 70%.

While going door to door, I asked a lot of those families about boutique tax credits like credits for dance or credits for hockey lessons. I was looked at, to be perfectly honest and transparent, with dismay. A lot of people in those communities couldn't afford to take their children to dance lessons or hockey. They were trying to survive on a day-to-day basis.

I asked those same families if doubling the tax-free savings account would be beneficial for them. Again, I couldn't find a family in a priority neighbourhood that invested in a tax-free savings account, let alone in the doubling of it.

To you and your staff, I want to thank you for your vision. I want to say thank you that our government is moving forth with a national poverty reduction strategy. I think that transformational change comes from national initiatives. I thank you from my heart for coming to Saint John on September 2 and announcing the tackling poverty together project. It talks to people with lived experience, consults people with lived experience, and is very inclusive.

For us to develop a national poverty reduction strategy we need to have everybody involved. What I saw, going door to door initially, was despair, no hope, and a group of people who lived in poverty and were forgotten by the previous government. I believe that things such as the Canada child benefit, which is better for nine out of 10 families and helps those living in need is transformational and will continue to make a difference.

In particular, for this budget, budget 2017, the minister stood up and talked about the significant, historic amount of investment in affordable housing to come up with a national housing strategy. Saint John has 1,300 people on a wait-list for affordable housing, and over the past 10 years that number has continued to grow. The fact that we announced money for a national housing strategy, I think, is another transformational measure.

My question to you today is about early learning and child care, which I was also thrilled about. In Saint John—Rothesay, I work alongside Erin Schryer from Elementary Literacy in New Brunswick and Shilo Boucher from the YMCA. We've developed an early learning pilot called “Learning Together” that we feel will be transformational.

Can you talk to me more about the investments you are making in early learning and child care?

1:30 p.m.

Louise Levonian Deputy Minister, Department of Employment and Social Development

Thank you for the question.

As you likely know, the 2017 budget announced $7 billion for early learning and child care. This is in addition to the $500 million that had been announced in budget 2016, so that's a total of $7.5 billion for early learning and child care. Approximately $5 billion of that is for funding to the provinces and territories, for an early learning and child care framework that we are working to develop and finalize with the provinces right now.

1:30 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Long Liberal Saint John—Rothesay, NB

I just want to jump in. Can you elaborate a little on the plan moving forward and working with the provinces? How will that go?

1:30 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Employment and Social Development

Louise Levonian

Sure. Do you want me to just finish the—

1:30 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Long Liberal Saint John—Rothesay, NB

Yes, go ahead.

1:30 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Employment and Social Development

Louise Levonian

Then another significant part of that would be $100 million over the period for innovation, innovation around early learning and child care, and then another $95 million is for better data to be able to assess the impact of the funding that would be provided. Then there's a further $100 million next year, and then I believe it's $130 million, and $130 million going out for the 10-year....for indigenous early learning and child care as well.

What we have been doing over the last while, initially, with the provinces and territories is discussing what an early learning and child care framework could look like and what the components are: quality care, availability, who the focus should be on, is it most in need, etc. That framework is being developed and is fairly close.

We would then agree with the provinces on this framework, and following that, there would be bilateral agreements that we would have with the provinces, and funds would be transferred. We would ensure also, working with the provinces and territories, that outcomes are achievable and that we are tracking outcomes for Canadians to ensure that's being done.

1:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bryan May

Thank you.

Sorry, we are out of time there. Maybe if we come back around, we'll get to the second part.

For the next six minutes, we have MP Dhillon, please.

1:35 p.m.

Liberal

Anju Dhillon Liberal Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC

Thank you.

My question was for the Minister of Families, Children and Social Development, but I will put it to the witnesses who are here.

Over the past few meetings, the committee has heard that women were under-represented in trades in Canada. When it comes to women's participation in the workforce, Canada ranks high compared to other OECD countries.

However, Canadian mothers, especially those with young children, are less likely to participate in the workforce than women from the best-performing OECD countries. Women with children are often unable to fully participate in the workforce owing to maternity-related challenges and the balance between family and work.

Can you tell us about initiatives the current government has taken with regard to equal opportunities for women and men since it took power and about the gender-based analysis carried out when Budget 2017 was drafted?

1:35 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Employment and Social Development

Louise Levonian

I will answer.

Many measures aimed at women have been taken. For the first time, the budget contains a specific analysis on the impact on women, but I will leave that to the Department of Finance.

When it comes to Employment and Social Development Canada, there are, of course, the child benefits. Minister Duclos talked about that a bit. There is also what we just talked about. We have also talked about early childhood development, learning and care. There are some measures related to employment insurance. There are also benefits for seniors, and we have increased those for people who are living alone. Normally, a large proportion of those individuals are women. We are talking about an increase of $947 a year. There are measures for the homeless. Money is set aside in Budget 2017 for that.

Ms. Sterling, perhaps you would like to add something.

1:35 p.m.

Lori Sterling Deputy Minister, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development

Thank you for the question.

Concerning employment, a consultation on pay equity is underway. Of course, that will help women. One of the priorities included in Minister Hajdu's mandate letter is the development of a pay equity regime—in this case, proactive—that would apply to federally regulated workplaces. That is one of our priorities. Moreover, we announced policies in the latest budget to make workplaces more flexible.

It was announced that there will be a package of reforms to assist in making the workplace more flexible. This generally favours women in the workplace, who tend to enter and exit. It includes a right to request flexible work, and it includes leaves, for example, for family care. Those would be two additional measures—plus an extension on maternity leave—that would be protected in the Canada Labour Code.

Thank you very much.

1:40 p.m.

Liberal

Anju Dhillon Liberal Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC

Could you please give us more details on the Budget 2017 measures to help women and families such as maternity leave, parental leave, as well as leave for family caregivers?

1:40 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Employment and Social Development

Louise Levonian

Yes. In terms of employment insurance, women have been given more flexibility. First, more flexibility has been provided for starting maternity leave 12 weeks before the due date. It used to be eight weeks. The period has been increased to 12 weeks. Second, the length of maternity leave has been increased from 12 months to 18 months, but the benefit amount has been reduced. Essentially, those are the two measures to help women.

1:40 p.m.

Liberal

Anju Dhillon Liberal Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC

Okay.

Can you elaborate on family caregiver leave?

1:40 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Employment and Social Development

Louise Levonian

Sorry, I didn't understand the question.

1:40 p.m.

Liberal

Anju Dhillon Liberal Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC

I'm talking about leave for family caregivers. Can you explain to us what you provide?

1:40 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Employment and Social Development

Louise Levonian

Okay.

Here are the details. I believe we have added 15 weeks of benefits for people who must provide assistance to an individual in a serious or critical situation. That is added to the number of weeks currently being provided; the existing benefits remain in place. This is an increase of 15 weeks.

1:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bryan May

Thank you.

1:40 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development

Lori Sterling

There will also be changes in employment insurance in that regard. We are talking about 17 weeks. Family caregivers' jobs will be protected by the Canada Labour Code.

1:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bryan May

Thank you.

Sorry, we have to move on.

MP Poilievre is next, please.

1:40 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

Mr. Chair, if I could, I'll begin by apologizing on behalf of my colleague across the way for taking so much time and leaving so little for our witnesses to respond to his comments earlier.

I'd like to ask the deputy minister of the Department of Employment and Social Development, Ms. Levonian, does the department have any data on the effect of a $50 a tonne carbon tax on the cost of a market basket?

1:40 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Employment and Social Development

Louise Levonian

I think the minister responded to many back-and-forths on that. What I would add is that, obviously, we are in the process of elaborating a poverty reduction strategy. Part of that elaboration is to determine what the best measures are. Once that elaboration has happened and we have a sense of what the best measurement of poverty reduction is, then would be the opportune time to see what the impact would be from those kinds of things on that kind of measure.

1:40 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

In the case of the market basket measurement, is there data?