Human Resources Committee on Oct. 3rd, 2017

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

Good.

Could you briefly touch on recommendations about how we can help income security, tangible suggestions? Also, you mentioned that new immigrants to Canada qualify for benefits that seniors do not. Could you highlight that?

[Richard Shillington]

I wouldn't have said it that way. What happens is that, if you are a senior in Canada, you get partial OAS if you don't have 40 years of residency in Canada. All seniors who are immigrants are going to get reduced OAS if they have been here less than 40 years. If they are also on GIS, then the GIS will replace their missing OAS. Canadian-born people are going to get full OAS. You've brought the immigrants up to what Canadian-born people would get if they are poor, so I don't think the immigrants are getting something Canadians don't get.

I don't know if I have any time to talk about GIS clawback. I have some ideas.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

You have 30 seconds.

[Richard Shillington]

GIS clawback, OAS fully indexed to wages rather than prices.... That's not cheap, and it's not targeted much. It goes to the middle income group.

If I had one thing, it would be the GIS clawback. Instead of being $3,500 of wages only—it's not employment, only wages; self-employment is not exempt—it would be all income, because $3,500 of income regardless of source would have some huge benefits, on the RRSP side as well, because then you wouldn't be clawing back RRSP withdrawals.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you very much, sir.

Now we go over to MP Fortier, please.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for their presentations.

This is my first time on the committee, and I'm extremely pleased to be working on such an important study as it gets off the ground.

Mr. Shillington, you said earlier you didn't have any suggestions regarding housing or health services, but I'm still going to try my luck. Perhaps your experience will support my comments.

As the member for Ottawa—Vanier, I've been fortunate enough to see how hard the Council on Aging of Ottawa has been working to help seniors. What's more, I believe you strive to represent and serve seniors in both official languages or in a culturally sensitive manner.

My question is for Mr. Shillington but is open to the other witnesses if they have a relevant experience to share.

Can you share with us any specific issues affecting seniors in minority francophone communities, as compared with those in majority anglophone communities? In terms of income security, housing, or health services, are there any differences that programs and services aimed at francophone seniors should take into account?

[Richard Shillington]

I don't think I am well qualified to answer that. I know the Ottawa Council on Aging does its presentations in both languages. I've done presentations, and they assist with that.

The question of housing.... I think my expertise is more in income security.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Let's take income security and consider the population in the Ottawa area, which you are no doubt familiar with. It is home to a large number of francophones and anglophones, each group having its own cultural reality. Does the issue need to be addressed differently depending on which community is receiving the support or service? You would certainly agree that we are talking about two different populations.

[Richard Shillington]

I am not sure if the issues are different. I do know that in signing up for old age security, the guaranteed income supplement, and the Canada Pension Plan, all of that, language is an issue, especially for people who don't speak English or French. I've looked at the data about the take-up rates for these programs, and they do differ for cultures or for the north of Canada, for aboriginal communities.

I don't recall there being an English-French issue. I do know that complexity and transparency.... I assume that those are comparable in English and in French, but I don't know.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Very well.

Madam Lola, your presentation was very good.

I understand that you mentioned you do not have solutions, but I believe you probably have a couple of solutions you could share with us; you have such experience of understanding your community. I would argue that you might have one or two great ideas you could share with us that you think we should consider in this study.

[Lola-Dawn Fennell]

I'll point out two things I would hope for. One is less reliance on technology. So much information that is available to seniors now is becoming available only via the Internet, and we have a large number of seniors who do not use computers. That's a literacy issue, in my eyes.

For example, in Prince George, Service Canada no longer does application forms of any kind with people. They say, “There is the computer over there. Use it or go and see the council of seniors.”

The other thing I would hope for is getting information out to seniors earlier. The People's Law School in B.C. put out a wonderful booklet called “When I'm 64: Benefits for Seniors” that explains what benefits are available to you at age 65. I would like to see it come out at age 44, not 64, so that you know ahead of time what's coming.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I would get it, then.

[Lola-Dawn Fennell]

Yes.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Are there any other solutions you would recommend from your experience in delivering such services in your community?

[Lola-Dawn Fennell]

I think I have more questions than solutions, really.

I wonder about increased reliance on volunteers to provide services for seniors. I don't think those volunteers are always skilled to do so, because seniors' issues are very complex.

I worry about the increasing reliance on community-based organizations to provide services for seniors. Community-based organizations such as my own rely on annual grants and fundraising, and I never know whether I have a job from year to year. It depends on our community gaming grant.

Again, I have more questions than answers. This is a really complex issue, and I honestly don't believe that talking about income security alone is the answer. We also need to look at housing and at community programs, because those issues are all so complex and so intertwined that you cannot pull one single issue out to address it.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Now for six minutes we go over to MP Rachel Blaney.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

The basis of the study is really around whether we need a national seniors strategy. I'd like an answer—yes, no, or abstain—from all of you on that question.

I will do that first and maybe start with you, Wanda.

[Wanda Morris]

Yes, absolutely. The issues are complex, they are interrelated, and we've seen where we get by taking ad hoc pieces and trying to address them. I think it's critical.

[Dr. Tammy Schirle]

Yes, with a major review.

[Yvonne Ziomecki]

Yes, absolutely—a comprehensive one.

[Richard Shillington]

Yes.

[Lola-Dawn Fennell]

Absolutely.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you.

I just want to say, Lola-Dawn, that my past was spent working in a non-profit organization, and I definitely know what it feels like to wonder every year whether you're still going to be able to provide those essential services.

I have definitely heard from my constituents that Service Canada is pointing them at a computer. In our riding, and I don't know whether it's the same in yours, they're actually not willing to print out the forms needed by the seniors. Our office is now printing out the forms and going out to service organizations across the community, because seniors simply cannot access those services.

Is that the same in your region?

[Lola-Dawn Fennell]

It's the same.