Human Resources Committee on Nov. 28th, 2017

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

I mean the only travel that we have been awarded. Under “committee business”, it was agreed that in relation to a study on accessibility and disabled Canadians, the proposed budget in the amount of $117,947 for the committee's travel to a number of different cities be adopted.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

On which topic is that?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

You, I'm certain, are aware of this, but I will repeat it again. It's for the study on accessibility and disabled Canadians.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

Chair, to speak to that, we have to be very careful how we spend taxpayers' dollars. There is to be what has been referred to as a bit of a boondoggle out in front of the Prime Minister's office, a skating rink. That's not a good use of dollars, and travelling is not necessary, so you will not have unanimous consent.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Okay.

Go ahead, Mr. Ruimy.

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

I just feel compelled to say this before we go to the vote. If the official opposition wants to hold our disabled and our vulnerable hostage, I find that to be a shame. I don't understand why we would hold our vulnerable hostage when we could be doing good work and when we agreed in the beginning to do this.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Just for the record, I'm not asking for a vote; I'm asking if there is unanimous consent. I've already been told that's not the case, so that's it.

Moving forward, go ahead, Mr. Warawa.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

To respond to Mr. Ruimy, I think everybody—I would trust that everybody—supports looking at ways to help people who have a disability that creates accessibility problems. I think it's good that we look at that. Actually having to travel and spend taxpayers' dollars, over $100,000, is not good use of those tax dollars. We can do the study by seeing pictures and having expert witnesses come in and by having video conference testimony, and we will save taxpayers' dollars.

The goal of the official opposition is to make sure the government is spending their tax dollars—not their tax dollars, but hard-working Canadians' tax dollars—wisely, and we don't believe the government is spending the dollars wisely. We can do the job without spending money foolishly.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Go ahead, Mr. Blaney.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Mr. Chair, I simply want to remind you that we had the opportunity of discussing this issue. We have some reservations with regard to this trip for the following reasons. First, as you indicated, the request comes squarely from the government. Second, the relevance of this trip is not obvious to us. Third, there are costs associated with this trip. Those are the reasons why I must inform you that you will not have the support of the Conservative Party, neither here nor in the House.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Okay.

Rodger is next, and then Adam.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

On this same point of order, I think it might be worthwhile if the clerk.... Obviously, as a government, we also are committed to not wasting taxpayers' dollars.

A similar study was undertaken in the last Parliament. It would be interesting to go back and see what the travel budget was under the Conservatives, as to where they travelled. I don't think you have to travel with the entire committee. I think you can keep costs down, but I think it's an absolute insult and disrespectful to the people who are out there trying right across this country to provide services for persons with disabilities.

It is imperative for you as new members of Parliament to get out and see this country and understand what's going on in the different regions of this world. There is no cookie-cutter approach to any kind of program in this country, and it's imperative that you get out and see the reality on the ground.

Our party's certainly committed to it. We believe that you can keep the costs down, but I think it would be worthwhile for the committee if you sort of scratched out to see what the travel budget was and where they went.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

I have Adam, Ramesh, Mark, and Alice.

Go ahead.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

Accessibility to the parliamentary process is one of the most fundamental rights of a citizen of this country, and there is no group that is more disadvantaged or faces more barriers and more obstruction that people with disabilities and their advocates, which they themselves often are. People with lived experience are a critical part of the way in which evidence is produced and experience is understood, and policy needs to be developed and needs to change.

I think a parliamentary committee studying the issue of disability that makes the barriers and the obstructions so much more of a challenge to allowing those voices to be present around the table and to provide evidence and experience is creating, quite literally, a barrier to democracy and a barrier to people's civil rights and liberties being pursued. In particular because one of the people who has spoken about this is a strong advocate for seniors, who often face even more challenges with disabilities because of age and because of barriers, I would strongly and hopefully urge the opposition—in this case, the Conservative members—to reconsider the advantages that would be gained, the experiences that would be seen, and the voices that would be heard by reaching out and moving towards people with disabilities, as opposed to making them march to Ottawa.

I will be very frank with you. The disability community is watching this very closely and understands exactly who puts barriers to participating in their way.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Ramesh is next, and then Mark.

[Ramesh Sangha, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

I am good there, because it's our duty. We have to see that we are looking after other people. It's not only that we are going to the other places that we should go to. If you want to save money, just go down Rideau Street, pass a few streets, and you will find accessible people there; you can go and do the study in only one place. That's not enough. We need to go to the whole of Canada. We have to see what everyone wants for those who are accessible persons. Those who are interested will know it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Mark.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

Chair, if there were a study on seniors and all the issues related to seniors, including accessibility, then I think this would be very worthwhile travel, but what we've heard from Mr. Cuzner is that this has already been done in the last Parliament. That's what Canadians object to: it appears like there are junkets. We already spent money on travel in the last Parliament, and what information was gleaned in that last Parliament?

Instead of keeping on studying and studying and studying, do something. That's what Canadians expect.

I will reflect on the report from the commissioner of the environment. The commissioner said, referring to the Liberal government at the time:

...bold announcements are made and then often forgotten as soon as the confetti hits the ground. The federal government seems to have trouble crossing the finish line.

It's time to do something, not to make more bold announcements with more confetti in the air. If we already have this information and if we've already travelled, then let's do something. If there is going to be a study on seniors dealing with home care and along with that on how we can get our youth jobs in that field, then I think I would support it, but just with a very narrow focus.

I believe the government has an announcement they want to make, so they want us to travel, and then there is going to be an announcement about how they've listened, so here are some funds that everybody is going to get. They're going to make this announcement that in 2021 to 2050, they're going to provide billions of dollars.

Let's be real. Let's do it now. Let's do it in this Parliament. Let's not keep moving the goalposts. If we've already done the travel, let's find out what we learned in that travel instead of wasting more money.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Before we continue, I have three more on the list. I have Alice, Dan, and Rodger, and it is 5:30 and I need to ask for consent to continue.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

No.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

That's that.

Thank you very much, everybody. As always, thank you to everybody who appeared.

The meeting is adjourned.