Human Resources Committee on Nov. 30th, 2017

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Once they pass the exam, they aren't under any obligation to immediately apply for a job, are they? They can screen opportunities as they come up and apply for those specific jobs, can they not?

[Patrick Borbey]

Well, they will be approached by us on behalf of departments to find out whether they want to be considered for a particular position, and then whatever that entails afterwards.

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Right. Is there a relationship between the public service exam and the foreign service exam, or is it separately...?

[Patrick Borbey]

It's separately administered. I believe it's not being administered this year, but it's certainly a very popular one. We provide support to Global Affairs Canada in applying it, and not just in Canada, but as you can imagine, across the world wherever people want to take this exam.

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Is the bilingual dimension of the public service exam or the foreign service exam an essential requirement, or is it one that can be acquired after passing?

[Patrick Borbey]

The language assessment is done separately. Candidates have the choice of taking these exams in the language of their choice. After that, if managers determine that they would like to fill a position that's bilingual, depending at what level, we become involved in assessing the candidates to see whether they meet the written, comprehension, and speaking requirements for it. We provide the ratings, and people either meet or don't meet the requirements.

There are positions that are staffed at all levels, including “English essential only” and “French essential only”. About half of the positions are bilingual.

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

I'm glad to see that recruitment has opened up again. I know that it was frozen for a number of years, but these are great career path opportunities. I tell post-secondary grads in my neighbourhood that the opportunities are almost unlimited among the opportunities that are there.

Ms. Isaak, speaking as the geezer at the table, when I went through school six decades ago, shop classes were a sort of early trajectory to apprenticeships. There were woodworking shops, metal shops, automotive shops in schools. These don't exist in many schools anymore, and they're in almost none of the indigenous schools. I wonder whether any thought has ever been given.... I know that resource companies, which are in close proximity to reservations or indigenous communities, offer some apprenticeship programs and opportunities, but not nearly enough.

Can you speak to that?

[Paula Isaak]

I think you're right.

Sometimes the schools on reserve have limited extra courses or classes that students are able to participate in, whether it's for such things as music or the equivalent of trade training. However, there's a greater degree of success, in fact, and higher participation rates of indigenous students in colleges and training centres, whether these are career colleges or accredited colleges on the provincial and territorial side. It is actually a stream that is fairly popular, and there are fairly high success rates for indigenous students.

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Lakehead University would be an example.

[Paula Isaak]

Exactly.

This is because it's often linked to jobs that might be available nearby.

As you mentioned—and you're right—resource companies also often reach into secondary schools and help to create the workforce, particularly when there are long-term projects, such as large mining projects, as an example.

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

To follow on the very good questions from Mr. Morrissey about disadvantaged youth—and in many cases, indigenous youth would be in that category—does the Red Seal apprentice program exist, and is it available to indigenous youth who are acquiring skills, but perhaps not up to the level of their being transportable, either out of the territory or province or from province to province?

[Paula Isaak]

I don't know specifically, but I would imagine it is available. I could follow up; I'm not 100% sure whether it is.

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Right.

As far as universities are concerned, other than some universities that have established separate programs that recruit indigenous students, does the federal government encourage more southerly universities to open their programs to make available accommodation and transition, if you will, to academia in the more traditional southern sense?

[Paula Isaak]

Absolutely.

I didn't mention it in my opening comments, but part of our suite of post-secondary programs also includes a post-secondary partnership program that supports institutions to do just that. They create either curriculum that is dedicated for indigenous students or other services that we call wraparound services for students. In addition, the post-secondary student support—the dollars that are provided for students for tuition—also go to travel and accommodation costs. All of those costs are eligible for federal funding.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you.

MP Fortier is next, please.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you very much.

I am really happy you brought this up, because I have the privilege of having two post-secondary institutions in my riding: the Collège La Cité and the University of Ottawa, where there a lot of youth from indigenous communities.

And so I have a lot of questions for you, but I am going to try to limit myself to two or three specific questions.

Ms. Poitras, your experience is very interesting. I know that there are barriers to entry. When I went door-to-door or when I meet young students, many of them tell me that they have trouble integrating the public service.

If you had two recommendations for them today, what would they be?

[Roxanne Poitras]

I would tell them to get involved and learn about the department they work for. If you stay alone in your corner, of course, you will only learn about what is happening in that corner. But if you take the trouble to find out what the organization does as a whole, then you will really have an opportunity to move.

I would also recommend that they get involved in networking. Personally, it was thanks to networking that I was able to obtain another position at the same level, and then was able to obtain promotions.

Those are my two recommendations.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Mr. Borbey, I have the same question for you. Earlier you said that more could be done, but how will you do that?

If you had two recommendations to make to us, what would they be?

[Patrick Borbey]

As I mentioned, our programs have to be more effective and more efficient. We have to modernize our approach and have more intuitive programs. For instance, when people apply through one of our programs, they have to receive feedback more quickly. Candidates often wait and wonder why they don't get any information. They wonder if they have been rejected by the program. We can do much better on that.

We have already improved our student programs, for instance. As I mentioned in my opening statement, we have streamlined the application process greatly, which has produced positive results and a better experience for students.

However, we still have work to do with our recruitment managers. Our managers do not want to take risks. However, they should look for candidates on the outside, train young people and transfer knowledge rather than always looking to the same pool of people who already work for the public service. All of the retirements mean that we will not make it if we only look for talent internally.

We need to take more risks and improve the experience of our students and young people who want to take part in the program.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you.

As I was saying, I have the privilege of having in my riding a large community of young indigenous people, and certain indigenous employers also, such as the Wabano Centre for Aboriginal Health and the Minwaashin Lodge. This summer, I organized a barbecue for the purpose of meeting the young people and the employers who took part in the summer job programs. The Minwaashin Lodge was very happy when two students decided to continue working for it afterwards. These were small successes.

Ms. Isaak, we really need to find solutions to encourage young aboriginal people to take advantage of such opportunities and to further their integration.

Do you think that our programs can do this, or do we need to make improvements? What improvements should we make?

[Paula Isaak]

I agree with Mr. Borbey completely.

We have to modernize our programs, which have been around for years. Currently, we are modernizing our programs with our partners. In fact, we absolutely have to find out about the communities' solutions, rather than providing our own.

We can do more, but we have to develop policies and programs in co-operation with the first nations, the Inuit and the Métis.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

What can we do to get greater participation from employers in certain regions, in order to support the most vulnerable young people, who are trying to get work experience while studying? I am thinking of the region I represent primarily, but also of other regions.

[Paula Isaak]

That is a good question.

In my opinion, we would get better results by encouraging businesses and the community in general to hire students and aboriginal youth. We entrust communication and integration to the community and enterprises, but we are not the ones who liaise with the enterprises. We can do better.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

If i understand correctly, there's work to be done at all levels.

Would the modernization of these programs have positive repercussions for these young people?

[Paula Isaak]

That is correct.