Evidence of meeting #75 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was young.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Rachel Wernick  Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
Christopher Bates  Director, Trades and Apprenticeship, Department of Employment and Social Development
Monika Bertrand  Director General, Employment Program Policy and Design Directorate, Department of Employment and Social Development
Benoit Tessier  Executive Director, Employer Liaison Services, Department of Employment and Social Development
Patrick Borbey  President, Public Service Commission
Roxanne Poitras  Youth Engagement Ambassador, Public Service Commission
Paula Isaak  Assistant Deputy Minister, Education and Social Development Programs and Partnerships, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bryan May

I call the meeting to order. Good afternoon, everybody.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Thursday, November 9, 2017, the committee is resuming its study of experiential learning and pathways to employment for Canadian youth.

Today the committee will be hearing from officials from the Department of Employment and Social Development, the Public Service Commission of Canada, and Indigenous and Northern Affairs Canada.

For the first hour, we have a number of witnesses here from the Department of Employment and Social Development: Ms. Rachel Wernick, senior assistant deputy minister, skills and employment branch; Monika Bertrand, director general of the employment program policy and design directorate; Benoit Tessier, executive director of employer liaison services; and Christopher Bates, director of trades and apprenticeship.

Good afternoon.

I believe we are going to get opening remarks from you, Rachel. You have seven minutes.

3:35 p.m.

Rachel Wernick Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Thank you.

My apologies for the slight delay. I went to Centre Block.

I'm glad I'm here, and I am really pleased to have this opportunity to speak to you about experiential learning and what we are currently doing.

We know that investing in work-integrated learning pays off huge dividends in the labour market success of youth. We know that 60% of youth say that on-the-job training and hands-on learning are the most effective instructional techniques, but fewer than half of those youth are actually enrolled in curricula that prioritize this approach.

Getting a foot in the door, or a chance to learn about the profession, is particularly crucial for vulnerable youth who many not have the networks to get that first chance.

Nearly four in 10 recent graduates in Canada take more than three months to land their first job, with one in 10 taking longer than a year. Moreover, perception from industry is that young people exiting post-secondary degrees are not job ready.

Graduates with relevant work experience are ahead of their peers. Data shows that bachelor's level graduates with co-op experience earn more than their peers, have higher employment and full-time employment rates, and are more likely to have paid off debt two years after graduation.

Overall, in Canada, labour market indicators for youth are very positive and compare very favourably internationally. Canadian youth ranked sixth among OECD countries, with an employment rate of 56%, compared to the OECD average of 41%. Canadian youth also ranked first in post-secondary education attainment among OECD countries.

You are looking at experiential learning, and evidence demonstrates that work experience is key to successful transitions for youth. Sixty per cent of post-secondary education, PSE, students say that on-the-job training is the most effective. In fact, enrolment in co-op programs at universities jumped by 25% in less than a decade. University students who graduate from these co-op programs earn $15,000 more than their peers. For college students, this is $8,000 more than their peers. We know that employers are more likely to hire students with work experience: 61% of employers selected graduates who had participated in some form of work-integrated learning in their programs.

Providing experiential learning opportunities is already a key element of our programming for youth.

Career Focus provides wage subsidies to employers and helps close to 7,000 youth obtain work placements.

Last year, Canada Summer Jobs nearly doubled the number of summer jobs for Canadian students, with a total investment of almost $200 million serving more than 65,000 students.

Apprenticeship is another proven model for transitioning into well-paid jobs in demand across the skilled trades: 89% of apprentices who completed apprenticeships held a job related to their trade, and 25,000 apprenticeship grants were issued to youth aged 15 to 24 in 2016-17, representing about $30 million in funding.

Most recently, the government launched a new partnership with industry and PSE institutions to offer work placements for students in STEM and business. This is an investment of $73 million over four years that will create 10,000 new work-integrated learning placements.

This is how it works.

Employers are provided with a maximum of $5,000 in wage subsidies for each new placement created. This amount goes up to a maximum of $7,000 for students in under-represented groups, including women in STEM programs, indigenous students, persons with disabilities, and recent immigrants. We have had overwhelming demand from industry and PSE in the first six months, and we are almost fully subscribed for our first year.

Internships can give young Canadians the hands-on work experience they need to make a successful transition into the workforce. However, some internships—in particular those that are unpaid—can be unfair and exploitative.

Bill C-63 includes amendments to the Canada Labour Code that would prohibit unpaid internships unless they are part of the requirements of an educational program. Unpaid internships that are part of an educational program are covered by labour standard protections.

We also know that not all young Canadians are positioned for success in the same way and that tailored support is needed for vulnerable youth. Indigenous youth are less likely to finish high school at a rate that is three times greater than non-indigenous youth. Also, 26% of youth with disabilities were unemployed, compared to 15% of youth without disabilities. Skills Link, a stream under the youth employment strategy, helps young Canadians with multiple barriers get ready for a job through skills development. Pathways to Education is a program whereby participants from the poorest urban communities across Canada are now having above-average high school graduation rates and entries into post-secondary education.

We also believe that good quality and timely information and advice play an important role to inform career aspirations and support successful transitions.

Job Bank has been enhanced and we will continue to modernize it with current technology platforms to be youth-centred and user-friendly.

The recently launched Labour Market Information Council will focus on timely, consistent, and local labour market information for all Canadians.

Financial assistance is essential to removing barriers to post-secondary education access, and here again we have made some important enhancements. Increased non-repayable Canada student grants are now available to more students in low- and middle-income families. We've introduced the fixed student contribution, allowing students who work to continue to do so without having to worry about a reduction in their levels of financial assistance, and now no student has to repay their Canada student loan until they are earning at least $25,000 per year. This amount is even higher for students with children.

Skills requirements continue to evolve, and credentials don't always represent the skills employers are seeking.

Despite significant investments and overall positive labour market indicators, when internationally compared, too many young Canadians are either not pursuing their education or not getting jobs aligned with their skills and training. Successful transitions from school to work will require more involvement of employers, and this is where increasing efforts on experiential learning and placements to meet the demand across all professions and sectors will be key. There is an opportunity to continue to enhance partnerships with educational institutions and employers. In this way, we get the win-win situation of students getting the experience they need and employers finding the talent they want.

We are exploring some promising practices for approaches that are most effective with particular groups, such as immigrant and refugee youth, indigenous youth, and gender specific youth.

We are in the very early stages of exploring our renewed youth employment strategy, and your study will inform our work. The key areas for action that we are considering include supporting smoother transitions from school to work, supported by quality learning and labour market information as well as work experience opportunities; ensuring that youth develop skills that keep pace with the changing nature of work; providing all youth a fair opportunity to enter the labour market and receive the support they need; and obtaining greater involvement of employers in youth employment.

Thank you for the opportunity to share this information on our work, and now we're happy to answer your questions.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bryan May

Thank you very much.

Before we get started, I have a note here. I want to advise everyone that last week a serious incident occurred during another committee—that is, not our committee—when two interpreters were seriously affected by microphone feedback. I want to remind everybody here, both members as well as witnesses, that if you are speaking, have your earpiece as far away from the microphone as possible, please.

That said, we have a few new people here, so I wanted to welcome everybody who isn't normally sitting around this table. Thank you for joining us.

I believe we are going to start off with MP Nuttall, please.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Alex Nuttall Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks for the presentation. Certainly this is a very important issue in terms of youth unemployment overall. I was looking at some of the statistics you used in terms of our comparative ranking with the OECD countries. It's interesting that our unemployment rate among youth is down to just below 12%, I believe, but the number of jobs has actually stayed level. The number of young Canadians—of youth, as we characterize it under StatsCan—has stayed level. Despite huge investments over the past couple of years, we haven't seen an uptick in the number of youth working. We've seen an uptick in the employment percentage, which means the participation rate is actually getting lower and driving the unemployment rate down.

Can you give us some comments on that? Essentially, where do you think it fits in terms of experiential learning, and is there a higher employment rate, not just a higher salary, for those young people who are going through co-op programs and others?

3:45 p.m.

Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Rachel Wernick

I'm just looking at my notes to clarify the participation rate. In Canada, for youth aged 15 to 24, it's 64.2%, and the OECD average is 47.2%. The higher ranking is on both the employment rate and the participation rate.

To more directly answer your question, yes, we have some preliminary but growing evidence that the youth who take part in co-ops and placements have more sustained employment afterwards, as well as higher salaries.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Alex Nuttall Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON

Thank you for that. It makes a ton of sense.

What I was actually referring to is the StatsCan data that shows that the real number of youth working is pretty much neutral, within 5,000 or 10,000, since this Parliament started sitting, which means that despite massive investments, the actual real number of jobs for young people hasn't increased at all. What has happened is that the participation rate or the number of youth seeking employment has actually gone down. That's what StatsCan shows on a monthly basis.

In fact, until July of this year, there were 40,000 fewer jobs for young people overall, despite huge investments in the summer jobs program and many other areas.

When we're looking at the trades and the co-ops, we see a lot of strong experiential learning opportunities there, no matter where you are in the country. Do we find that there is a higher rate for those who go directly into employment in the trades, or is it about on level with other sectors that youth are graduating from?

3:45 p.m.

Christopher Bates Director, Trades and Apprenticeship, Department of Employment and Social Development

I believe there is a higher level with the trades, given that in order to go into the trade, you need an employer. It is the ultimate demand-driven program. When you're in an apprenticeship, you automatically have that for the start. In fact, over 80% of tradespeople don't experience any difficulty when first entering into the trade.

It's a pretty phenomenal statistic that they can go from sometimes having no experience whatsoever to being able to find an employer who is willing to take them under their tutelage to eventually become a journeyperson. The outcomes and earnings are pretty phenomenal relative to other opportunities.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Alex Nuttall Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON

This is for whoever can answer the question.

When we're looking at experiential learning, there's the employment issue. If you take monthly averages over the past three or four months, we have roughly a 12% unemployment rate among youth. The United States has 8%; Japan has 4%; the U.K. has about 12%, even though they're going through Brexit. When you apply that to experiential learning, the second item, which we don't really have a lot of data on, is underemployment.

If you apply experiential learning to that subject, do you have any data showing that if you go through a co-op, yes, you're going to earn a little bit more, but you're also going to end up in the field that you actually studied in?

3:50 p.m.

Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Rachel Wernick

The answer is yes. The same evidence or research I was speaking to earlier shows that you're more likely to get a job in the profession you studied in if you have placements as an experiential learner.

On underemployment, you make a really good point. It's a key challenge for youth. It's part of what we're looking at in the renewal of the youth employment strategy, because there's this quality.... If you don't get a good job, there's a scarring effect—that's the term we use—in that it's hard to get out again. This is part of the reason we think programs like co-ops and placements get you in the door and get you into the right environment in the profession that you studied in. They're that first transition. That's why they're such important tools.

To come back to your question, I'm not sure I'm going to answer it directly, because—

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bryan May

Be very quick, please.

3:50 p.m.

Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Rachel Wernick

—just on a conceptual level on participation and employment rates, it's hard to control for what's going on in the economy. As the economic cycle fluctuates, one can also say that if we hadn't invested in youth, the rates would have been even lower, because the investments allowed us to keep that at par in a period when there was quite a bit of downturn.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bryan May

Thank you very much.

Mr. Ruimy is next, please.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Dan Ruimy Liberal Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC

Thank you very much for being here today. This is a subject that's near and dear to a lot of us.

On Tuesday, when the minister was here, we talked about the Canada summer jobs program. We talked about how the goal was to try to almost double the number of jobs that were held. I know that in my riding in the first year we didn't have a lot of uptake, because it was always closed to small business. In the second year, we went out and actually called about 500 businesses. We encouraged them to apply. As a result, there were a lot more jobs, to the tune of almost 100,000 jobs, because we created an awareness of it, which is something that is critically important.

I have two questions on that aspect. Is there a way that we can continue to increase the number of youth who are available and can get Canada summer jobs, but more in line with their.... How do we get them to apply for those jobs or get employers to actually zone in on what their backgrounds are? I'm not referring to somebody standing at a gate and saying “Here's a ticket” or “Here, I'll make you a cup of coffee”; I'm talking about nurses, for instance, who can work as nutritionists or care aides, so that they can connect their summer job with the skill they are studying. I'm finding that this is a bit of a challenge. We're not making those connections. Is there anything you can say to that?

November 30th, 2017 / 3:50 p.m.

Monika Bertrand Director General, Employment Program Policy and Design Directorate, Department of Employment and Social Development

Yes. In terms of increasing the number of youth for the Canada summer jobs program, a significant investment went into Canada summer jobs. You know that. There was $339 million in budget 2016 to essentially double the number of Canada summer jobs.

Jobs with not-for-profit organizations are 100% subsidized at the minimum wage level. For businesses, it's at 50%. Of course, the rise in minimum wage, which is a good thing, puts pressure on the envelope.

There are a couple of reasons we are trying to get businesses more interested in the Canada summer jobs program. It is the quality of the work experience, of course, that's important, but it is also about being able to increase the number of Canada summer jobs youth who can benefit from the program. When you have 50% of the salary paid for by the employer, then of course you can double the number.

In terms of the quality of jobs, this is something that we are always striving towards. We advertise as much as possible, we make sure MPs advertise as much as possible, and we make sure that businesses are out there proactively looking for young people and advertising to young people. This is an ongoing challenge, but it's also an ongoing opportunity for us to make sure that people know about the program.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Dan Ruimy Liberal Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC

Thank you.

The answer is probably not the one I'm looking for, but do you in any way track the number of Canada summer jobs and what happens to them afterwards? You probably don't, but is there any tracking involved with that?

3:55 p.m.

Director General, Employment Program Policy and Design Directorate, Department of Employment and Social Development

Monika Bertrand

We are starting to do that more. We have introduced a follow-up survey. We are now tracking students in the sense that we want to know more about the summer work experience. We want to know more about the quality of the employment and we want to know more about whether they feel more prepared for a job. We will learn a lot more from CSJ.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Dan Ruimy Liberal Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC

I visited almost 90% of summer students. I talked to them and I talked to the groups that are hiring them, and I was so happy to see people taking fishery courses in university. We were connecting them to fishery organizations and they were working with what they were doing. That was fascinating to see.

I want to jump ahead to the Skills Link program. It's another one that's big for me. I'm curious to know if you are tracking what happens. Generally in our case it's a five-week training program. How efficient is it? Are we using metrics to follow up? Is there a way to improve how that is evaluated?

3:55 p.m.

Director General, Employment Program Policy and Design Directorate, Department of Employment and Social Development

Monika Bertrand

Every five years there's a full evaluation of our programs. The youth employment strategy is delivered in collaboration with 10 other departments and agencies. The ESDC, our department, collects the SINs of youth who participate in the programs, which allows us to connect to CRA data, which allows us to follow their earnings and their reliance on passive income support.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Dan Ruimy Liberal Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC

Are there any reports that suggest that—

3:55 p.m.

Director General, Employment Program Policy and Design Directorate, Department of Employment and Social Development

Monika Bertrand

Of course there are.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Dan Ruimy Liberal Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC

How many of the 30 people in my riding who went to one session got jobs afterwards?

3:55 p.m.

Director General, Employment Program Policy and Design Directorate, Department of Employment and Social Development

Monika Bertrand

It's more at the aggregate level. I would have to look at the technical reports to see if we evaluated by region, but we certainly have a lot of information on outcomes.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Dan Ruimy Liberal Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC

That would be very helpful, because again it's so critical that whoever is executing the Skills Link program is doing an above-average job. We don't want them to be there for five weeks and then see them fall through the cracks. It would be great to have further information, and if you could submit anything of that type to the clerk, it would be great.

3:55 p.m.

Director General, Employment Program Policy and Design Directorate, Department of Employment and Social Development

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bryan May

Thank you very much.

Now for six minutes, we will go to MP Sansoucy, please.