Evidence of meeting #82 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was process.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Lori Sterling  Deputy Minister, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development
Barbara Moran  Director General, Strategic Policy, Analysis and Workplace, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development
Brenda Baxter  Director General, Workplace Directorate, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development
Charles Bernard  Director General, Portfolio and Government Affairs, Public Services and Procurement Canada

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

If the team says no, and they declare it vexatious, does the individual have an appeals process?

February 12th, 2018 / 4:15 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development

Lori Sterling

Maybe I could answer that question.

If a complaint comes into the labour program, then we will investigate.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

Full stop: every single complaint you will investigate.

4:15 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development

Lori Sterling

The only time we would not investigate is if it were determined that it was frivolous or vexatious.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

This is my question. If you determine that, is there a mechanism through which the individual can appeal?

4:15 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development

Lori Sterling

When the minister makes a determination about frivolous and vexatious, which is an extremely high standard—

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

Is there a process through which the individual can appeal?

4:15 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development

Lori Sterling

Yes. You can always judicially review the decision of a minister to a court of law. That is the nature of the appeal in the case of a ministerial decision.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

The current act requires the minister to appoint an appeals officer for occupational health and safety appeals, and the decisions of this officer are binding and cannot be appealed to a federal court.

I understand that the budget implementation bill this spring will transfer these provisions to the Canada Industrial Relations Board. Is this correct? That's my first question. Second, will this transition be in place before Bill C-65 comes into effect?

4:15 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development

Lori Sterling

It's true. We have moved appeals from decisions of investigators to the Canada Industrial Relations Board, and the reason is that they're a professional tribunal with lots of expertise. However, that appeal process—indeed, the whole process—is set out in the new legislation and is not available at the present time.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

Thank you. I'm aware of that. That's what I said, but will it be implemented, will it be in place before Bill C-65 is implemented?

4:15 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development

Lori Sterling

I think that our intention is to make it in place before—

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

Okay, so you have good intentions—

4:15 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development

Lori Sterling

Our intention is to have it in place and ready. When Bill C-65 comes into force, it will be ready. In fact, it may—

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

Okay. All right. Thank you.

My next question, then, is directly for the minister.

This position a minister holds. Complaints come forward or concerns come forward. Let's say an employee of the minister has a concern, that the employee feels they have been sexually assaulted or harassed in some way by the minister. Where does the staff member of the minister go with his or her concern?

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON

If at any time the complaint is about the minister of labour, the deputy minister takes those complaints.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

Full stop, always.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON

Right.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

My next question, then, is, does the power to appoint the investigator come directly from the minister?

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON

Yes. However, it's through the department. There's not an interference. There are investigators. The department has investigators. The complaint comes forward to the department and the investigation begins.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

Regardless of which party is in power, we want this to be non-partisan. How are we going to make sure of that? How are we going to make sure that a Liberal minister and his or her department do not show favouritism or preference in complaints against a Liberal member, and meanwhile are maybe not so preferential with someone from the Conservatives, the NDP, or the Bloc?

How do you ensure that you treat all investigations the same way, regardless of the party the member being complained about belongs to?

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bryan May

We need a very brief answer, please.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON

The process is such in the political realm that the investigators approach the Speaker of the House of Commons, and the Speaker of the House of Commons then works with the investigation—

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

That's the investigator who's put in place by the minister.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON

Well, there are many investigators.

Lori, maybe you could speak about what the investigations involve.