Evidence of meeting #21 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was seasonal.
A recording is available from Parliament.
2:45 p.m.
Executive Director, Migrant Workers Alliance for Change
Sorry, Mr. Chair. I don't—
2:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sean Casey
You accused Minister Mendicino of lying.
Mr. Albas, you have five minutes, please.
2:45 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to thank both our witnesses for sharing their concerns and expertise with us today.
I am from the Okanagan, so we have a fair number of temporary foreign workers, seasonal agricultural workers, in my riding. In the last election, one issue I heard about at one of our immigration debates was specifically that seasonal agricultural workers pay various payroll taxes, like employment insurance and the Canada pension plan, but are obviously not eligible to access those services.
The issue was that simply just exempting them from the requirement would create an uneven playing field for employers to hire seasonal agricultural workers over Canadians, as it would be cheaper without the employer portion of these taxes. I've been trying to get some facts as to why this policy exists and then also how to deal with it.
Do any of you have any comments with regard to the policy of having seasonal agricultural workers pay these taxes or payroll taxes, and how can we best address the situation?
2:45 p.m.
Executive Director, Migrant Workers Alliance for Change
There are two major issues. One is that EI is not available, including paternal and maternal benefits, which used to be available and then the government took it away from migrant farm workers.
The other issue is that the way it's situated, basically when you're on a work permit and you finish your work, you are unemployed for four months, but benefits don't travel across borders, essentially. That is why so many migrant farm workers came here, if CERB was accessible to them.
They knew they were going to die. We received hundreds of calls saying, “If we come, we know we'll die.” They were right because three are dead, but they came because CERB was not accessible to them. Therefore, EI, CPP and all benefits need to be portable and need to be accessible to migrants.
The reason that's not happening is the way the system is created, but also bank accounts. You deposit CPP in Canadian bank accounts. How do you access it in Mexico? There are some very simple technical issues, but there are these overall issues around portability.
2:50 p.m.
Research Associate, School of Public Policy, University of Calgary, As an Individual
Yes, as the other panellist mentioned, previously we used to have access to paternity and maternity benefits for temporary foreign workers in Canada. A restoration of those benefits and just a simple extension of EI to all workers in Canada would go greatly to reducing the stress that many of them may feel, especially if they have to go off work for a while. Using specifically the example of this pandemic, but even in my own experience, workers are often hesitant to call in sick. They're hesitant to report injuries, because they are afraid of losing time with relation to work. Being able to allow them to get EI would greatly reduce the likelihood that they are subjected to a pandemic such as COVID-19.
We might also wish to consider allowing them to receive EI if they are abroad before they come back. Many of these workers are often repeat workers, meaning they come back again year after year.
Those would be the two points I have with regard to employment insurance.
2:50 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
If the current policy is maintained, that means people are putting into CPP or into EI without having the eligibility for those benefits. Obviously there's a question of fairness. Would it be as simple as giving the money back, if it's something that they can't claim? Is that something you think it would be, or as you both said, perhaps re-evaluating whether someone can be qualified for those?
2:50 p.m.
Research Associate, School of Public Policy, University of Calgary, As an Individual
I'm not sure about the exact nuances of such a program. I'll give you an example of something you can do.
Temporary foreign workers do file taxes in Canada. Allowing them to receive an EI deduction or EI rebate through taxation might be one possibility. However, again, I just provide that as an idea, not a specific recommendation.
2:50 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
Sure. Okay.
We had some discussion earlier about the $1,500 that was given to farmers to be able to isolate workers. Obviously anyone who is coming into the country right now, whether a resident of Canada or not, is receiving these isolation orders. However, the question in my mind regarding all farmers who are receiving this $1,500 is whether there are checks to make sure that the workers are self-isolating, and as Mr. Falconer said, that they are safe.
Do either of you think the government is following through to make sure that the health and safety of both Canadians and the workers themselves are being followed up in the use of this $1,500 grant?
2:50 p.m.
Executive Director, Migrant Workers Alliance for Change
Let's get the numbers right. The federal government has given $900 million. That's nearly $1 billion to agri-food businesses since March 15. Most of these employers make a profit of over $500,000, and the vast majority of them hire migrant workers. Therefore, it's not just $1,500 per worker for the quarantine period.
In that $1,500 there was no guarantee, for example, that food would be provided to migrant farm workers. That wasn't written into the rules. What has happened as a result is that we work with people where 13 workers got one bag of potatoes to eat for a week. Six workers got one carton of eggs and a loaf of bread, and that's legal. Therefore, the employers are using it to change quarantine conditions for people to social distance for two weeks, but then right after that, they ram them in at 40 people to a dorm, with access to one shower, or 35 people to four toilets. Also, the quarantine period isn't covered in the $1,500; it is not about it.
Actually, that $1,500 was just for the first 14 days. Those rules were not followed. However, the rules were bad and all of the problems have arisen right after the quarantine period. I think $1 billion has been given to big businesses. Most of these cases were in quarantine where workers weren't given food. The employers charged them for food. Thus, they're taking money from the government and they're taking money from the workers. We've documented 500 cases of that in the report that was released three weeks ago.
2:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sean Casey
Thank you, Mr. Hussan.
Thank you, Mr. Albas. We're well past time.
Mr. Vaughan, you have five minutes.
2:50 p.m.
Liberal
Adam Vaughan Liberal Spadina—Fort York, ON
Thanks very much.
To Mr. Hussan, many of the standards you're talking about are provincially enforced standards in terms of the work conditions. Which province is doing it the best?
2:55 p.m.
Executive Director, Migrant Workers Alliance for Change
Yes, labour conditions are under the provincial law, but the federal government, by creating tied work permits, indentures workers to those laws.
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
Adam Vaughan Liberal Spadina—Fort York, ON
I understand that. I'm just asking about the best regime, if we were to model improvements.
2:55 p.m.
Executive Director, Migrant Workers Alliance for Change
For the federal government, the best proposal is permanent resident status for all. The labour regime in B.C., at least in quarantine specifically just for those 14 days, made things a little bit better by taking over housing, but what happens after those 14 days? Are these debts happening afterwards? Labour intensification is happening afterwards.
There is a recruiter law that's good in Manitoba that I think should be created across the country. There's access to health care laws without the three-month wait period after entering the country.
There are different provincial laws and different issues. WSIB workers' compensation, minimum wage laws, recruiter laws, health care, each of them are different. We've already provided a comparison to this committee. I can resend that to look at best practices.
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
Adam Vaughan Liberal Spadina—Fort York, ON
In terms of those best practices, if we levelled the playing field up, that would be one of the ways in which to improve day-to-day conditions, but is your fundamental position that all temporary foreign workers should have access to permanent residency status immediately upon taking a job or over time?
2:55 p.m.
Executive Director, Migrant Workers Alliance for Change
For all temporary foreign workers, all international students and all refugees, basically a single-tier immigration system.... Any multi-tier system where you are in a system of temporariness for a few years means there's exploitation in those years, and if there are exceptions.... For example, in provincial nominee programs, you need to get a letter from your boss to say that it is a full-time job offer. We have seen employers say to a group of six workers that they will pick one of them. Now, none of them are complaining. Actually, the employer was taking money back from their paycheques in return for this promise of a letter.
Any time you have a temporary system, and you set up rules for anything after, there's exploitation. There's just no way around it, and there's no way to stop it because you don't complain, because complaining means you face deportation.
That's why single-tier immigration, permanent status for all, a documented migrant, student, single system....
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
Adam Vaughan Liberal Spadina—Fort York, ON
The minute you land in the country you're a permanent resident.
2:55 p.m.
Executive Director, Migrant Workers Alliance for Change
The minute you land in the country, but first let's talk about the people who are already here. A regularization program—
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
Adam Vaughan Liberal Spadina—Fort York, ON
I appreciate that. If it's single tier, it's single tier. It means you apply, you get recruited, you land, and regardless how you work out on the farm, you have permanent resident status—
2:55 p.m.
Executive Director, Migrant Workers Alliance for Change
Like any other permanent resident in the country who comes from across the country. Three hundred thousand people get permanent residency each year. They land without a job offer. They get PR. We do that even with refugees, some refugees, not others.
There is a permanent system of immigration. Historically, that was the only system. This two-tier system is an aberration. It's recent, and it's particularly developed to ensure that certain people profit more. That's it. There is no benefit to Canada. There is benefit to employers or universities. There is no benefit to the health care system, to public health or to laws. If you just had a single system, you wouldn't have to have this conversation. Things would be simpler. We have to ask, “Who does it benefit?”
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
Adam Vaughan Liberal Spadina—Fort York, ON
To Mr. Falconer, on the change that is being scoped out here, differently, by the two of you as witnesses, has it been costed in terms of the impact on what it would cost to accommodate these sorts of changes, and what that impact would be to the food agriculture business? This is not to suggest that there should be a price on human rights, but just so we understand what we're talking about as an impact.
2:55 p.m.
Research Associate, School of Public Policy, University of Calgary, As an Individual
To clarify, I can certainly provide to the committee afterwards a brief including several recommendations that range across everything from housing to EI. With regard to permanent residency, I've never seen any Parliamentary Budget Officer's report on what it would cost and what the benefits would be in financial terms of immediately granting everybody permanent residency.
If I can raise one point with regard to that, in a forthcoming paper from the school we will actually address the.... We did an analysis of the transportation logistics as they relate to the agricultural sector. When you look at the total agricultural system, including on farms and in processing, transportation is the one area where you actually have what you might want to call a transition rate. For every year, let's say about 1,000 temporary foreign workers come to work in the transportation business and about 96% become permanent residents, yet there has been an increasing number of temporary foreign workers coming to work in that sector every year. If everybody were angels, we wouldn't have to make these arguments, but there are those who remain concerned that offering permanent residency to farm workers might somehow reduce the supply of farm workers.
The presence of temporary foreign workers in other sectors, such as transportation, proves evidence to the contrary. People will continue to want to come and work in Canada. I understand the other council might disagree with me on this, but the Atlantic immigration program, with the accumulation of hours, could be adapted to an agriculture immigration pilot, but it needs to be accompanied with other reforms that concentrate on the safety of workers. Permanent residency does produce good health care and income outcomes. Immediately, we can also do much more in relation to housing, employment insurance, and to Ms. Kusie's point, licence shares so that workers can actually practice in the field they trained in as well.
3 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sean Casey
Thank you, Mr. Falconer and Mr. Vaughan. That takes us to the top of the hour.
Mr. Hussan and Mr. Falconer, the connection that you have to your work, the passion that you show for your work, is very evident in your presentations. We thank you for your service to the communities involved. We have greatly benefited from your presentations today. It will aid our work going forward. Thank you very much for being with us.
Colleagues, we are going to suspend for a couple minutes.
3:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sean Casey
We are back in session.
I would like to welcome Ms. Debbie Douglas, executive director for the Ontario Council of Agencies Serving Immigrants.
We also have Fernand Thibodeau, the vice-president and spokesperson of Seasonal Workers Help and Support.
Ms. Douglas, you have seven and a half minutes.