Human Resources Committee on Jan. 28th, 2021

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.

My question is for Ms. Sam.

First of all, congratulations on your election, and also thank you so much for sharing a bit about your personal story and your insights. I find your words really powerful.

My first question is around low-barrier, 24-hour, seven-day-a-week safe spaces, and what they can do as a life-saving measure for indigenous women, girls and two-spirit people. Can you speak about the importance of those spaces? To your knowledge, are there any barriers in establishing and sustainably funding those kinds of low-barrier, 24-7 safe spaces?

[Elizabeth Sam]

Thank you for the congratulations.

I think the big barrier right now is the pandemic.

There is a new centre that opened up in Prince George, which is an hour and a half away from me, from Nak'azdli. That place has been exceeding expectations. They've been helping a lot of people, because it is a 24-hour place where they can go to get warm and comfortable, and get a warm drink. They do have the cultural aspect there.

Yes, you already talked about the funding. If we were going to have a 24-hour space here in Nak'azdli, to support even the village that's beside Fort St. James—we're basically one town, the reserve and then the town—I wouldn't want it to be accessible to the indigenous and non-indigenous peoples. Yes, it's just getting more funding for that and getting the nursing staff. We're low now in nursing and doctors. We need more nurses and doctors here and more mental health supports, so more funding.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

In the last session of this committee we'd been talking a lot about the need for wraparound supports and supports that are culturally and spiritually relevant.

I'm just curious about your thoughts about the government including these kinds of wraparound supports within its funding for indigenous housing.

[Elizabeth Sam]

This might be a little bit off topic, but I would love to have more programs for MPs, like all of you, and people who work for the House of Commons, and to have someone like me come in and teach you about intergenerational trauma and indigenous peoples and how they overcome those things, just so you can get a better insight. I'm sure you read the books and you see the news and you see all the stuff. I don't know if you've seen comments coming even from John Rustad, as an MLA, about the vaccines and stuff, and that there's just so much racism. Just more awareness and education for you all, I would say....

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thanks for that.

I have another question. The National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls calls for the government to establish a guaranteed livable income for all Canadians, including indigenous peoples, to meet all of their social and economic needs.

I am curious if you believe a permanent, guaranteed basic livable income would help ensure indigenous peoples have access to housing and have their right to housing met.

[Elizabeth Sam]

I think yes, but also let's say that I was living on the streets in Vancouver or Prince George. If you gave me $800, $900 or $1,000 every two weeks, and I was living on the streets, what am I going to do with that money? I'm not going to get a house to rent.

I think it starts with the individuals healing themselves and taking a look at what they're running away from and why they need alcohol and drugs to live. We need more programs for healing and stuff like that to get them back to their culture and get them back to being a healthy, thriving human being.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

That's wonderful.

In the last hour before you joined us, I had mentioned that I am coming to you from Victoria, which is the homeland of the Lekwungen-speaking people, the Esquimalt and Songhees first nations.

We have the Aboriginal Coalition to End Homelessness, and they do culturally supportive and low-barrier access to affordable housing. It seems so important right now.

I know a lot of individuals who have experienced homelessness have previously experienced child welfare. I am just curious about your thoughts about what could support young indigenous peoples who might be aging out of care, and I'm thinking about a guaranteed basic livable income and how that might help youth homelessness and indigenous youth.

[Elizabeth Sam]

I have never been in care or anything like that, but while I was in Victoria, I did an internship with the B.C. government's indigenous youth internship program, and that's how I got with the Union of B.C. Indian Chiefs on the second part of the internship.

In the first part I was working at MCFD, actually, in Victoria, at a provincial office. I helped to chair a meeting with the youth who were in care, and then I have some friends in Vancouver who have been in care their whole lives and they've aged out. They're artists and singers.

Laurel, with me, it all comes down to healing. You're not going to be able to live a healthy life and get a house and do anything like that if you don't heal what is harming you—so more healing programs for the youth and more supports.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Sam, and thank you, Ms. Collins.

Witnesses, that concludes questions from members of Parliament.

We have about six minutes left in the meeting and we have some other committee business we need to attend to.

I do want to sincerely thank you for being with us this evening, for your testimony and for the work you are doing. We are quickly approaching the end of witness testimony. This will be extremely valuable to us as we set off to draft our report and recommendations within a few weeks. Thank you once again. You're welcome to stay, but you're free to leave.

Colleagues, at our last meeting Mr. Vaughan had verbally presented a motion. It was suggested that it be provided to the committee in written form, and it has been. I would propose that we deal with that motion. We have fairly limited time but it concerns the next four meetings of the committee.

The most recent version of the motion has one typo in it—actually it has two. That concerns the fourth date, so the next four meetings of this committee are February 2, February 4, February 16 and February 18, although the notice of motion incorrectly calls it February 28. The other typo is in Mr. Vaughan's name, but we all know that.

I would ask you to use the “raise hand” function if you want to speak to this.

I recognize Madam Chabot.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Vaughan, thank you for making this clarification and for presenting the written motion.

Mr. Chairman, the correction made to the date, February 18, is acceptable to me.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you.

Ms. Collins, you have the floor.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

I just wanted to speak in support of the meeting with Jesse Thistle and the second hour with CMHC, which is the rapid housing initiative. There was a comment from my colleague, MP Gazan. She was hoping to have the minister appear, so the CMHC for one hour and the minister for one hour. I'm just wondering if we could adapt the schedule to make sure that's included.

Also, just maybe as a point of clarification because I am filling in, is there no steering committee? Is the committee business on February 2 going to be a whole two-hour session, or do you do a steering committee? Then that could be a shorter time and then potentially we could have the minister for the second hour.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

There is a steering committee and we're tyring to secure who we can on the rapid housing initiative.

I am going to let Mr. Vaughan speak to that as he has a line into the minister's office.

With regard to committee business, there is a steering committee. Anything the steering committee does needs to be ratified by the full committee, so I am in the hands of this group here on whether the February 2 meeting is the steering committee alone or all of us. I'll take your advice on that.

Mr. Vaughan, could you respond to the availability or willingness of the minister to be part of the rapid housing initiative update on February 2 or February 4?

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

Tuesdays are impossible for the minister. He's on the COVID committee that meets when cabinet meets, and it's going to be too difficult. Thursdays are the more likely date if we're going to get the minister on this.

We're also pulling together the department and getting the statistics so we have as fulsome a disclosure as possible as to where we stand on rapid housing. February 2 looks a little soon. CMHC is really buried right now getting out the project-by-project applications, so there's a bit of a challenge there. The way it's proposed is based on what I got from the minister's office and his availability potentially, and also where CMHC thinks it can land. February 4 is the best date for that, considering how close February 2 is.

In terms of February 2, we haven't really had a refreshing. Since Parliament rolled over and we had the proroguing and then re-established, we haven't had a chance to ask some of the new members what they want as studies, and so on. While the steering committee does meet and tries to deal with what the committee assigns it, we haven't had a fulsome canvass of the new members of some of the other studies that might have emerged since we first set priorities way back in the spring. Actually, it was this time last year that we decided to do this study, and COVID got in the way of that a bit.

I think a longer meeting was the reason we put that on the table in terms of trying to make sure we have all members, and new members of the committee, make their contributions to setting the agenda going forward. That's why that meeting is a little longer than it normally would be.

Other than that, as I said, this is the schedule we're hoping to meet and I hope it meets with the committee's approval.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Vaughan.

Mr. Vis, please.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

I'm indifferent on the specific date, whether it's the Tuesday or the Thursday, regarding the rapid housing initiative, but to Mr. Vaughan's point, I think it would be helpful if the department had collated all of the applications to date and was able to share more detailed information with the committee.

Secondly, as a friendly request to the analysts, in advance of the study, our first hour-long meeting on the rapid housing initiative, would they be able to get a copy of the actual application and share that with all committee members? Could a copy be provided of the first announcements made by the department on the program so that we're all working from the same information?

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Vis.

We'll go to Mr. Turnbull, please.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

I want to express my support for this and ask that, in addition to the other typos that we just corrected, Jesse Thistle's name should have an “e” on the end. It's not “Jess”; it's “Jesse”.

Thanks.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

We need to buy a couple of vowels. Thank you.

Ms. Collins, please.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Perhaps I'll let Mr. Kent speak before I go ahead again.

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Thank you.

I wonder whether we need the full two hours on February 2. Certainly, witness selection could follow off-line with submission by the end of the week, next week.

I understood that Jesse Thistle was going to appear with the minister as a recipient of the scholarship. If we move Jesse Thistle to the second hour on February 2, it would perhaps give us some flexibility with the minister and CMHC on February 4. It's just a thought. This is not obstruction; I'm just asking.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

I actually think that makes good sense.

Ms. Collins, please, go ahead.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

I was going to make almost the exact same suggestion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

All right. I see no one else on the list.

Mr. Vaughan, are you waving at me? Go ahead.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

Yes. That's a friendly amendment.

The one thing I would add to Mr. Vis's comment is that, first of all, the applications are still online. You can still go to the CMHC website for the rapid housing initiative. It's a two-page application form. That process is still publicly available. I'll make sure I send it across to the committee chair and they can send the link to everybody.

On the issue of detailed information, the one challenge we have with this, which I hope everyone appreciates, is that a number of the big cities are still in the process of acquiring properties to meet the commitments they've made. They're pretty sure they have them, but disclosing the exact address before the real estate deals close could have implications. I don't want to have a bidding war start when they see that government money is on the table around a property acquisition. Therefore, just to foreshadow that, the details might not be quite that specific.

The second piece of it is that, with a number of the applications in the project stream, of course, in some cities, one of the unfortunate side effects of this is that we've seen non-profits competing with each other for similar sites. There will be some discretion exercised by CMHC not to disclose particular names and particular buildings until real estate deals are closed.

I hope the committee can understand in a highly competitive real estate market, especially in some of the major urban areas, the challenges that CMHC is facing in full disclosure. They will give, as much as possible, unit counts, locations, unit costs and that sort of thing, but exact property addresses might be difficult.