Human Resources Committee on Jan. 28th, 2021

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Okay.

[David Eddy]

I'm just kidding you.

I think if it is done in an effective manner and folks already working for ISC, especially the indigenous ones, were to be segued into those other jobs or that other organization, then absolutely.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Okay.

[David Eddy]

For indigenous, by indigenous by definition speaks to that.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you.

In our testimony on Tuesday, I asked one witness about some of the improvements we've seen at CMHC in responding to indigenous clientele. What do you think CMHC does really well right now, and what do you think it does poorly?

[David Eddy]

What they are starting to do again—which they did really well in the 1970s and 1980s, as I alluded to earlier—is get back in the game. I think housing, to a large extent, belongs with CMHC. When I look at the rapid housing initiative, as quick, rapid and intense as that process was—we put in a submission to the rapid housing initiative—I think there was a lot of good to it. This is especially apparent if you compare it to the national housing co-investment fund, which was so overloaded and cumbersome.

With the rapid housing initiative, you had 30 days to get your proposal in. They'd get back to you in 30 days, and then you had a year to build something. That strikes me as exciting and challenging and really gets things done quickly.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you, sir.

I'll end with one comment. I agree that for the large municipalities in Canada that got the funding right away, that was the truth. However, I wish that type of approach had been extended to the smaller rural and remote communities that needed access to these funds just as much. Unfortunately they were subject to an application.

We really appreciated your testimony today, sir.

[David Eddy]

Thanks.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Vis.

Next we will go to Mr. Turnbull, please, for six minutes.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to both of the witnesses for being here today and for sharing your knowledge, expertise and lived experience with us.

Maybe I'll start with Mr. Eddy.

I heard you mention the scale of funding or investment that's required and the number of units of housing.

I also wondered if I could comment on whether you've done an assessment at all or have anything to add on the situation of inadequate housing. There is probably lots of existing housing—nowhere near enough, everyone recognizes—on which, in addition to massive investment in new housing, a significant investment is required to upgrade. This existing housing may be inadequate and overcrowded.

Could you speak to that and to the scale of that investment?

[David Eddy]

Yes. Of our 20 properties, 10 are over 30 years old and coming to what is known as the end of their operating agreements, which in our case is 35 years. We have some housing that isn't ready for redevelopment. That's the sort of logical next step after the operating agreements expire, so we have to keep those buildings up. Through processes such as replacement reserve, modernization and improvement, and other tools, we do try to do that on a regular basis. However, every year that costs more and more money, and even though replacement reserve might have been regarded as adequate 30 years ago, the amount that we put in turns out to be not so, as everything is so much more expensive.

For example, I can think of three buildings that we have now that are going through capital refunding to the tune of $4 million and $5 million for each property. This is an ongoing example, separate and distinct from redevelopment or acquisition of new housing, which we also actively chase.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thank you. There are as many challenges with refinancing as there are in redevelopment.

Ms. Sam, I'm going to you now. I want to thank you for your testimony as well and for your lived experience. In particular, I wanted to pick up on the theme of unconditional love and support. We have heard from other witnesses that in communities there seems to be a need for a kind of ecosystem of supports to go along with the housing. We've heard that from many other witnesses.

Could you speak to gaps in services and supports that might need to be filled in your community? I resist talking that way because I'm not sure it's always about “filling holes”, as a metaphor, but maybe you have some insight as to what is needed.

[Elizabeth Sam]

Thank you.

In my community, we have people who moved home 20 years ago and they're still on the waiting list for a home. Someone who just moved home last year, with their master's degree, is now on that list. I'm sure they could wait 20 years. Some people are still on that list.

Probably more services.... I don't know if you've ever heard of the Fire Pit in Prince George. They help you to get housing, get jobs and stuff like that. Probably more services like that, where you go to a business and they help you with many different things, like maybe your health and staying healthy, getting a home, getting a job and maybe addiction services.... We need more places like the Fire Pit—if you wanted to look that up—in Prince George.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Will do, and thank you for that. If you have any information, we'd love for you to table that with the committee, or we can look it up as well. I appreciate that.

In terms of the cultural elements that are unique to a for indigenous, by indigenous urban, rural and northern housing strategy, how do we have this program designed uniquely, and what are those unique cultural elements that need to be at the centre of it?

I'll start with Mr. Eddy and then I will go to Ms. Sam.

[David Eddy]

We would first start off with the name of the building. We would go to two examples in our last two buildings that we developed. One was called Skwachàys and the other Kwayastut, and those names were given to us by Chief Ian Campbell of the Squamish Nation.

Skwachàys was the name of the area pre-contact in Vancouver, and the folks from the north shore used to canoe over to the Skwachàys, which was an area of salt marshes. There was a lot of great hunting and fishing in the area. Up through the salt marshes were underground springs, and those springs were regarded as portals to the spirit realm. It was described as a place of transformation as well. The name fit perfectly with what our purposes were and what we developed as a theme, which we call “community building through the transformative power of art”. I'll come back to that in a minute.

Kwayastut is a 100-unit building in uptown Vancouver at Broadway and Fraser, and we attached to that a 12,000-square foot, state-of-the-art youth building. There are 30 youth from the youth centre who live in our building. The youth centre is operated by another entity known as Broadway Youth Resource Centre. Kwayastut, the chief told us, means “finding one's power”. It was again very appropriate for the indigenous youth who were in the building.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Ms. Chabot, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to both witnesses.

Ms. Sam, first of all, thank you for your testimony, and I congratulate you on your journey and your commitment. I would like to ask you a question about the report that has been released on missing and murdered indigenous women and girls. I know that you have been a member of a coalition on this issue.

In this report, much emphasis was placed on housing. I imagine that this notion is very important when it comes to the safety of women, children and girls. The report also talked about the creation of indigenous communities. It emphasized that housing must be adaptable and that strong communities must be built in urban areas to enable indigenous nations to take ownership of their space and cultural identity.

Can you tell me more about that?

[Elizabeth Sam]

Thank you for the question. It was hard listening to your voice and then also the translation.

You mentioned the coalition. I chaired the meetings for the RCMP and the Vancouver Police, and the organizations that keep them in line, the CRCC and stuff like that.

When I worked for the Union of B.C. Indian Chiefs in Vancouver as a policy analyst, I chaired those meetings, the Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women Coalition.

I think your question was on the importance of “Red Women Rising”, the reports that have come out for the missing and murdered indigenous women's inquiry and having those businesses.... Can someone clarify the last part of the question?

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

I'll be more precise.

In this report, there was a strong emphasis on the housing issue. Based on your understanding of the many recommendations highlighting the importance of creating cultural communities and safe housing for women, has there been any progress?

Are these concerns being addressed in some way?

[Elizabeth Sam]

Okay. Thank you so much for clarifying this. I haven't seen any progress, but I haven't been working with housing specifically of late, since I moved home.

I totally agree with the reports about culture and housing. Also, Mr. Eddy's program and the FIBI strategy—by indigenous peoples, for indigenous peoples—is a big thing. Indigenous people teaching other indigenous people their culture, unconditional love, how to heal themselves and how to be healthy and happy is really a family and nation thing, especially with the people specifically in my village.

Mr. Eddy's program, FIBI, sounds pretty interesting and I can't wait to hear more about it.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you very much for your answer.

Mr. Chair, do I still have time to ask Mr. Eddy a question?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Yes, you have two minutes left.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Mr. Eddy, thank you for your presentation.

You began your intervention by pointing out how desirable it would be for housing strategies, particularly those aimed at indigenous people, of course, since this is the subject of our study, to distinguish between northern, urban and rural settings. Currently, this distinction is not made, and you added that the population is much more present in urban and rural settings, in general.

What would an effective urban-rural policy look like?

[David Eddy]

There would be a separate distinction that the federal government would put into the housing strategy for urban, rural and northern indigenous people in general. Given that they are by far the largest group in those four groups, it only makes sense that they would have a separate distinction.

Also, there's been 40-plus years of urban native housing experience with all those housing providers in the country. There are well over 100 of them who have created, developed and nurtured communities over that period of time. If suddenly that were to stop and be taken over by one of the other three entities, then it would be like rebuilding and reinventing a wheel that already worked fine.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Eddy.

Thank you, Ms. Chabot.

The last round of questions will come from Ms. Collins, please, for six minutes.