Human Resources Committee on May 13th, 2021

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank Dr. Sinha and Dr. Mihailidis for their excellent presentations.

I have a few technology-related questions to start with.

During your presentation, you stressed the importance of the Internet. As you know, our government has made great strides to provide Internet service to all of Canada.

For example, in Quebec, we are working with the province. Currently, 40% of the population in my riding does not have Internet access. However, I can confirm that all residents of Quebec will have Internet access by September 2022, and that they will enjoy a fast connection. This is huge progress.

How will this improve living conditions for people once all Quebeckers are connected in September 2022, compared to how things are currently?

[Dr. Alex Mihailidis]

Access to something as simple as the Internet can make a huge leap in terms of how older people can be connected not just to information, but more importantly, to their friends, family and health care circles. Again, we've seen during COVID that more older people are getting online in order to access those services.

This is not going to go back to where we were before. This trend of online health care, telehealth and tele-rehab is going to continue to grow. Because of that, the infrastructure needs to be there.

We applaud the efforts of this current federal government to put these points of access in place; however, the questions that we hear all the time from older people are, “Why was this not done five years ago? Why was this not done 10 years ago, when we knew that the role of the information highway was going to be so critical as we move forward?”

It's never really been an issue of technical capabilities. They've always been there. We've seen that in many of our provinces during the pandemic, where for decades, we've fought for telehealth services in the province of Ontario to no avail, then over a weekend it seems, all of a sudden we have telehealth because of the pandemic.

If anything can be taken out of this in a positive light, what we've gone through, it's the fact that it has shown us that we have the capabilities. We have the capabilities here in Canada to do so. Now is the time to really push this initiative forward as quickly as possible.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Thanks for the great answer.

I forgot to tell Mr. Chair that I have to share my time with my colleague, but I have another question.

We have a program we call new horizons. What has been discussed most about this program is related to education, training. Everything is related to devices, like tablets, or the Internet. People want to communicate with their families. Should this program be increased and should we be doing something better for the future to make sure that we support seniors?

[Dr. Alex Mihailidis]

Absolutely. This program should be increased. It should be considered a basic right of every senior and Canadian from coast to coast to coast. Instead of making it a special project, so to speak, or a special fund, this needs to be a standard part of any budget moving forward.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

As you know, our government has created, through a technology initiative, a website that is extremely popular, the wellness together Canada site. We weren't expecting it to be so successful. This website is also used by our seniors. It offers services directly online, by telephone or by SMS.

You mentioned earlier that many seniors have telephones and that some of them had downloaded the app onto their telephone.

Is this the sort of tool that we should use more in order to help our seniors with technology?

[Dr. Alex Mihailidis]

Absolutely. These types of services that can be delivered through off-the-shelf technologies are really critical.

The other important aspect, though, is working with the telecom community and the device manufacturers to ensure that these types of services can work on phones that may be two, three or five years old. That's another trend that we often see among older adults. The phones they use may have been the phone of their grandchild or their son or daughter who passed it on to them. This is the state. Then, all of a sudden, the COVID Alert app does not work on the older version of the phone.

Back compatibility is a big issue. This is something that we need to work on together. This requires bringing industry in, bringing government together, bringing in the manufacturers and designers and bringing the policy and regulatory bodies together as well.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Lauzon.

Ms. Chabot, you have two and a half minutes.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is technology-related.

Dr. Mihailidis, your presentation and your studies show the importance of continuing with remote diagnostics and medical consultations, which technology makes possible. I agree with you to a certain degree. However, would you agree with me that a balance must be struck?

Spokespersons for the association des médecins omnipracticiens i.e., the association of family doctors, have stated that this tool should be used more. It does not, however, completely replace in-person consultations. What's more, there would have to be excellent Internet service everywhere in the country.

Quebec recently concluded an agreement with the federal government to improve Internet access.

What do you think are the limits of technology in the field of medicine?

[Dr. Alex Mihailidis]

Merci for this very important question. You are absolutely right. Technology is a tool that must be used among many different tools, whether technologically based or not.

Whether it's a smart home system, a sensor that someone is wearing to measure cardiac performance, or even a robot in someone's home—which is coming, if it's not already here—again, these are tools. They're not replacements for the medical profession. They're definitely not replacements for the family caregivers themselves. No way do I imagine it as a replacement. No way do I foresee a robot replacing my friend Dr. Sinha here—though maybe some days he would like to have a robot by his side to assist him—moving forward.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

What are your thoughts about improving Internet access? It is essential.

[Dr. Alex Mihailidis]

We absolutely need to have broadband service across the country, coast to coast to coast, for this to happen. It's amazing; once that happens, the floodgates will open in terms of the types of technological solutions we can implement and use to support not only our seniors but also Canadians everywhere.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Chabot.

Our last couple of questions will come from Ms. Gazan, please.

You have two and a half minutes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.

This question can be for either witness.

The government provided seniors with only a one-time $300 payment to support them during the pandemic. We're now at the two-year mark of this health crisis, and there has been no other support provided. This is deeply concerning for me and my riding. We are the third-poorest riding in the country. We have many seniors, including seniors who are veterans, living in deep, deep levels of poverty.

Do you believe this one-time $300 payment for seniors during the pandemic was sufficient, especially given the fact that we know that seniors experienced an increase in the costs they incurred during the pandemic? If not, what is the alternative?

I'll give you both a chance to answer quickly. I'll start with Mr. Sinha.

[Dr. Samir Sinha]

This is the challenge, right? I think the initial one-time payment was done at a time when we thought there were just additional costs where, again, someone had to order things online. They had these extra unexpected expenses. They had to take taxis to get to places. These were extra expenses. It was a good investment to be made, because I think it was very useful for many older Canadians in particular.

There's the recent budget announcement of the old age security increase. I believe some of it was to be provided as a lump sum to start and then was theirs ongoing, but I don't know when that will happen. I think we certainly have to look at how people have been affected. Again, these issues didn't last only a few months. These have lasted well over a year now. We have to consider that and how those challenges are affecting older Canadians.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you.

[Dr. Alex Mihailidis]

I don't have too much more to add to that.

On Dr. Sinha's point, those original decisions were really made without knowing what was coming. Now that we're more educated and we understand the situation and what could happen, obviously new decisions should be made using the best data possible.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I asked that because, as indicated before, this pandemic has certainly highlighted inequalities in a real way. I would argue, certainly during the pandemic, that if we look at groups that have been marginalized even prior to the pandemic, seniors have been horribly marginalized. We need to do better, and I think that needs to happen immediately.

What do you think the next steps should be to ensure that seniors can live in dignity in this country?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

That is the last question.

[Dr. Samir Sinha]

To start off, again, I think it's not just seniors in general, but we also need to think about low-income seniors who also are more likely to be racialized or indigenous. This is where, again, if we were to do a limited top-up, I'm thinking about the 2.2 million older Canadians who are principally our guaranteed income supplement recipients, because they're the lowest-income people we can think of.

I think if we're thinking about a financial measure, I would target those who are most vulnerable amongst us, those lower-income people first, because that's an immediate financial relief measure that could be made as one aspect.

The other thing right now is that the number one thing older Canadians want is to get their second dose of vaccine as soon as possible because, again, they're still 90% of the people who are dying today.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you very much, Ms. Gazan.

Dr. Mihailidis and Dr. Sinha, thank you for your leadership and for your expertise. We very much appreciate your being with us. It will greatly help our work with this study.

Dr. Mihailidis, if I may say so, thank you for the heroic efforts you took to ensure that the technology would work, and for the enjoyment that I understand you provided to your neighbours. In all seriousness, we very much appreciate your both being with us, and the testimony you have shared with us today.

Colleagues, I'm sure you are aware by now that the budget implementation act has not been referred to the committee, so I wish you an excellent and productive constituency week and look forward to seeing you on May 25 when our witness will be the Minister of Seniors.

Do we have consent to adjourn the meeting?

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Yes, sir.

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Have a good week, everyone.

The meeting is adjourned.