Human Resources Committee on May 25th, 2021

[Annette Gibbons]

That's a great question.

Because this program will be delivered through projects that these community-serving organizations structure, we would be relying on them to make sure they're doing the kinds of checks that need to be done. We would provide the support for them to be able to do everything they need to mount a project and provide services to seniors ultimately, through volunteers, for example, so it will be important that they are resourced to be able to manage the volunteer function well.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

That's right. I strongly recommend that resources are put in place to mitigate the risk of things happening, because it will bring a bad name to a very good program, which will be discouraging to a lot volunteers who are in place.

Very quickly, on the new horizons program, I hear a lot of community groups have been successfully applying for this funding. Of course, we saw the additional funding put into place last year. Going forward, is there any way to provide any stability to these community groups in terms of these programs, because they see that they're catering...?

It's quite successful, and they want to continue doing good work with the support of this program.

[Annette Gibbons]

The funding is not an operating grant, so there's no guarantee of receipt of funding every year. Every year, it's sort of what we call a competitive process. There are lots of different organizations that are new to the program every year. There are definitely organizations that apply for funding on a renewed basis every year as well.

The objective of the program is to fund distinct projects as opposed to the ongoing operations of an organization, so that's a distinct project that meets the needs and objectives of the program.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Gibbons.

Thank you, Mr. Dong.

Ms. Chabot, you have six minutes.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Let me start with a brief preamble by saying that fear is a very bad counsellor. So I hope I won't scare you with my questions, but I'm very happy that we can scare you a little.

My question is about the government's stated intention in its budget to increase the old age security at age 75 starting in 2022.

Do you recognize that the old age security pension and the guaranteed income supplement make up the first pillar of Canada's retirement income system?

[Annette Gibbons]

They are certainly the pillars of the income system for seniors.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Do you agree that the old age security pension is a social protection system that provides retirement income and that is universal at age 65, regardless of one's situation, whether one has worked or not?

[Annette Gibbons]

It is not a universal right, because there are still conditions, such as the number of years as a Canadian resident.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Yes, that's true. However, in general, a few months before we reach that venerable age, we all receive a message from the federal government telling us that we are eligible for the old age security pension.

For many people—I don't know the number, but perhaps you do—this is their only retirement income. They have no other retirement income from work or other sources, or they have not worked. So the old age security pension is a major source of income.

You advise the government on its decisions that justify its policy choices. This is very important. Here's my question. What studies and evidence-based data did you use to draw a line, for the first time in our view, and increase the old age security starting at 75 instead of 65 years of age, recognizing that the universal pension plan, with some conditions, starts at age 65?

What evidence do you base this on, and what differences do you see, even between 75 and 73? What is the rationale behind that?

[Annette Gibbons]

The government has made a decision to make that distinction and to increase the pension for those 75 and over.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Yes, but what data were used?

[Annette Gibbons]

The minister told the committee about a number of factors. There are the costs of health services, the additional costs of living when a person becomes single again after the death of a spouse. There are differences in work participation. People who are 75 and over work much less than those who are 65—

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Do you have any evidence?

[Annette Gibbons]

Yes—

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Can you forward it to us?

Does it support the fact that I may be 68, 69, or 73, and although I'm entitled to my old age security pension—

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

I have a point of order.

I'm sorry to interrupt, Madame Chabot, but the translation is not coming through clearly. I can't understand a word.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

I'm not sure, Mr. Vis, but it might be because we had two people trying to speak at the same time.

Mr. Vis, is it working now?

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Why would two people be speaking at the same time?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

It was you and the witness, Ms. Chabot.

I'll turn it over to you.

You have one minute and a half left.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Let me give you another example.

I hope we can get that evidence, because we don't think there's any justification for those decisions other than that they are political choices.

My other question is this. We are in a pandemic and this will be short.

Last year, because we hammered it home, people received $300 for old age security at age 65. This year, in August, we're going to do the same thing, and we are still in a pandemic, but this time it will be at age 75.

What justifies that decision this time?

[Annette Gibbons]

The $500 payment in August is really related to the decision to increase the old age security pension for people 75 years and older. It is a payment in recognition of the fact that this change will not take place until July 2022.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Do I still have time?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Yes, you have 30 seconds.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

In 30 seconds, I can hardly ask questions about other measures. However, I will use the example of abuse. I don't know why we are spending money—perhaps you can justify it—on policies or action plans that the provinces have.

Have you thought about advising the government to increase health transfers so that the provinces and Quebec can make all their own choices in terms of service delivery, instead of spending money on a piecemeal basis on issues that have nothing to do with the federal government?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Could you please answer briefly?