Evidence of meeting #41 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was benefit.
A video is available from Parliament.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Carla Qualtrough Liberal Delta, BC
We can definitely provide you with a description of every provincial and territorial regime.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
Thank you, Madame Chabot.
Madame Zarrillo, you have the floor for six minutes.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Bonita Zarrillo NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm Bonita Zarrillo from Port Moody—Coquitlam in British Columbia.
Thank you so much, Minister, for coming to the committee today. I know that last week, when we had a technical briefing, there were a lot of unanswered questions, a lot of questions still left unknown. I guess one of the things to think about is the context in which we're having this discussion. Around us, the cost of living is soaring, and we know that rents, the price of food, heating costs—all these things—are rising at exponential rates, and people living with disabilities are finding it even more challenging to pay their bills and to make ends meet.
You mentioned today around six years. I'm going to mention that in the seven years your government has been in power, people living with disabilities have not been able to get the help they need to put food on the table and to get security around life planning. While grocery store CEOs right now are lining their pockets, persons with disabilities are finding themselves even more at risk.
Canadians living with disabilities want to know when the Canada disability benefit will reach their bank accounts so they can get by.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Carla Qualtrough Liberal Delta, BC
Without presuming the duration of this parliamentary process but assuming we get this through the House and through the Senate, day one after that, this bill becomes law. There's a regulatory process. I've estimated 12 months. The process will roll out as it rolls out. If that's the case, we're looking into 2024.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Bonita Zarrillo NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Minister, about the timeline, that 12 months, we know right now that there is some talk out of provinces—let's think about Alberta, for example—of potentially putting at risk the negotiations that happened around child care. If we are talking about a 12-month window, is it realistic to believe that each and every province and territory will be able to get a negotiation and a commitment in 12 months?
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Carla Qualtrough Liberal Delta, BC
I very strongly believe it is. We did it with the Canada child benefit. This is a direct benefit to individuals. It's not a transfer to provinces, so the negotiation of child care is not exactly a parallel. It may indicate a political climate, but as I've said, this issue seems to rise above partisanship in terms of the honest and good-faith conversations that are happening now. These conversations have been happening since July 2021, when we had our first FPT ministerial meeting on this, at which we laid out and agreed upon a shared commitment to working through this together and individually to make people better off.
I have confidence in that, absolutely.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Bonita Zarrillo NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Is there an opportunity to have that written into the bill? At this point in time, is there a spot in the bill that talks about the timeline, that makes a commitment to the timeline?
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Carla Qualtrough Liberal Delta, BC
In terms of when the act will be coming into force, or when people...? I'm sorry. I don't quite know what kind of timeline. I cannot tell you when the regulatory process will start, which means I can't tell you when it will end, which means I can't guarantee a timeline beyond those parameters.
4:15 p.m.
NDP
Bonita Zarrillo NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
One of the things that people who are going to rely on this benefit, who need this benefit.... You mentioned the hundreds of thousands of Canadians across Canada who need this benefit. They need a timeline at least that says that when regulation starts, it will be a six-month window, an eight-month window or a 12-month window to end regulation.... It can't be an open-ended exercise on regulation.
4:15 p.m.
NDP
Bonita Zarrillo NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Is there a spot in the bill where it says that once it's ready to go, the regulations need to be finalized within six, eight, nine or 12 months?
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Carla Qualtrough Liberal Delta, BC
I don't have a sense of where that could be. With the complexity of the regulatory process, I couldn't estimate confidently what that magic number of months would be.
My best estimate, based on how other regulatory processes have gone, is 12 months, but I'm not sure I would have the confidence to say that in terms of putting it in law.
4:15 p.m.
NDP
Bonita Zarrillo NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Talking about making some sort of a timeline, I'm sure you can understand that it's been very difficult for persons with disabilities who have been watching this process coming along, especially since the idea of it was introduced almost seven years ago. People were expecting it last year and now it's taken a year. I think it's only fair—you used the words “fair” and “consistent”—that there be some sort of a timeline.
How could that be accommodated? How could that be addressed? How could there be an urgency embedded in this bill?
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Carla Qualtrough Liberal Delta, BC
Listen, no one wants to get this done more quickly than I do. I know that's what you heard last week from officials. However, we have to get it done right. We are fundamentally changing the landscape of our social safety net in Canada. I can't imagine feeling worse than if, at the end of this process, I realized that someone is not only not better off, but might inadvertently have been made worse off because of this.
The complexity of these systems risks that happening if we don't take the time to do this, while also being mindful that there is absolute urgency. There is nothing that I am paying more attention to or care more about. There's nothing other than this on our plate within the ODI and the ESDC.
I think we have set ourselves up, with all the work we have done to date, to be able to start rigorously pursuing the regulatory process and the final negotiations with provinces and territories on day one, when this becomes law.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
Ms. Zarrillo, your time has gone over.
Mrs. Falk, you have five minutes.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Rosemarie Falk Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK
Thank you very much, Chair.
I'm Rosemarie Falk, member of Parliament for Battlefords—Lloydminster, in Saskatchewan.
Thank you, Minister, for taking the time to be here with us today.
We know a benefit for persons with disabilities has the potential—and you've touched on this—to significantly improve the financial and overall well-being of many Canadians. As costs continue to soar and affordability is on everyone's mind, we know there is even greater financial pressure for Canadians with a disability, who already have a higher cost of living. While there seems to be general agreement on the stated intent of Bill C-22, which is the legislation before us, it really is just a shell, which I would say is another word for a framework. All the critical details of this bill have been omitted.
It's very reminiscent of when this committee studied Bill C-22 in the 42nd Parliament. That was when your government chose, once again, to exclude any teeth from the legislation and leave it all up to the regulations.
My question, Minister, is this: Why did you decide to exclude all the critical details from the legislation and ultimately shield it from the scrutiny of Parliament?
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Carla Qualtrough Liberal Delta, BC
First of all, I would beg to differ that Bill C-81 hasn't had a significant impact on the way this government has governed and the way law is made in this country.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Rosemarie Falk Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK
Sure, but listening to stakeholders who came to committee.... I recall; I was here. Stakeholders were not consulted. We heard that over and over again. We had over 200—almost 300—amendments through this committee. That was from stakeholders.
I just want to make sure that consultation is being done up front—because I agree that we have a once-in-a-generation time to make a difference—to make sure it's done properly.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Rosemarie Falk Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK
Minister, you said in your opening remarks that this benefit will be “modelled after the GIS”.
How many of the GIS program eligibility parameters do you intend to apply to this disability benefit?
