Human Resources Committee on Nov. 14th, 2022

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Zein, you've told us you are a person with a disability and you have worked. I respect you.

How could the Canada disability benefit meet all the needs of persons with disabilities without depriving them of other income?

[Peter Zein]

I found that to be a really difficult problem. I thought a lot about how they are going to be able to do this. To be honest, I wouldn't want that job.

When I worked, I commuted from one city to another. I worked for 11 years straight, five days a week. It was good. I enjoyed the work, but it was a low wage. It was a government-funded organization. I had transportation costs.

Where I live now, in Stratford, I'm not working. I have insurance. However, I have to worry about getting a van, transportation. I can't work anymore. I'm at the point where my expenses are probably less, but I still have a mortgage. I have payments. How do we differentiate? I lived in Toronto, and I know how expensive Toronto is. Then I didn't have money, but I had subsidies. Subsidies helped. Each person is different, so how do you come up with a formula? I don't think it's an amount that's thrown, and we'll give disabled people $4,000 or whatever. I don't think that's going to work.

I agree with what you said, that there are a lot of different things to consider. If we do it too quickly, it's not going to be done well. It has to be done right. I've lived through too many years, 40 years of living through different governments and different promises, and it's never come through. It has to be well thought-out.

It has to be firm, so that the next government that comes in will know that this is required. This needs to be continued to be worked on for people with disabilities. Somehow make it so that the next government can't just go for votes for something else.

I'm not going to give you a number, because I don't know. I know my benefits and my supplies and medications.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Zein.

Just for your information, Mr. Zein is appearing from the hospital today. That's why there was an issue connecting with him.

Merci, Madame Chabot.

Now, to conclude, we have Madam Zarrillo for six minutes.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I will come back to Mr. Zein, because I want to talk about those promises over the last 40 years, just to get an idea of how we ensure that it doesn't happen again.

I'm going to start with Ms. Yee, though, to talk about the cost of living.

You spoke about the cost of living, the current rise in the cost of living in the current situation and how much fear and stress persons with disabilities are living under right now.

Have there been any conversations among the organizations that you are in regular contact with around an emergency disability benefit as we wait for a Canada disability benefit, to alleviate some of the pressures that are happening right now?

[Leslie Yee]

Unfortunately, there hasn't been much conversation in my group around an emergency benefit. Everyone's been really concentrating on Bill C-22 and moving forward with something a lot more permanent.

As Mr. Belanger said earlier, a lot of our supports come provincially. I know a lot of people are really working hard in order to find supports in order to make up the difference. It would be really nice to not have to always be fighting for that little extra support somewhere and to know that we are getting a base amount that at least allows people to live comfortably.

An emergency is a one-time thing that can help for a moment, but it doesn't help to create systemic change for a long-term change.

Thank you.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you so much.

I'm going to follow up with that on the long-term change, the systemic change.

Mr. Zein, you said that in the 1990s, when the Americans with Disabilities Act came into being, there was some expectation in the community that Canada would follow suit. I had a meeting just last week with a couple of folks out in B.C. who said the exact same thing. They can't believe we're still waiting right now.

As legislators sitting around this table, we're being asked to trust that this will happen. My question to you is, what do you see as the risk to people living with disabilities if this doesn't materialize in any way?

[Peter Zein]

I think MAID would become much more popular. You see it all the time on the news. I just watched on the news somewhere, where a man doesn't want to die, but he has gone on MAID because he is scared of being homeless. He would rather die than be homeless, even though he doesn't want to die.

I think there's hopelessness. If we don't get something to give us the opportunity to get employment—I'm getting a little too old for that, but there are some people who could make enough money and actually save something to get any transportation to get to work, or anything.... If there's absolutely nothing offered above the poverty line, it can't help anybody. We're just going to stay on the same route and get worse, and people with disabilities are just going to become sickly.

It is a disappointment. When they stopped it, the government simply.... After this big Vancouver conference, with people from all over the world.... We were seeing Russian guys with skateboards for wheelchairs.

It's changed in other countries. The United States didn't take any.... It was put in place. A lot of the businesses and the governments didn't like it because they said it was too harsh and too hard, but look at them today. If I go to the United States, I can go anywhere.

I heard they get cars in England. They actually give vehicles to people to find employment. They do things that go far and beyond. It doesn't have to be a cash amount. I think it has to be something that would benefit everybody.

How that's worked out, I can't tell you. Something needs to be done, because right now it's getting worse. It's disgusting that Canada, one of the top countries in the world, hasn't even looked at people with disabilities and said they need help. I see money going everywhere and elsewhere, to every other group, but I never hear of people with disabilities being mentioned.

I actually watch the Parliament channel. I watch the government. I look at the website. I don't see anything. It is very rare that we hear disability mentioned.

I don't know if that answers the question or gives you more problems, but that's how I feel.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

No, it does answer the question. Just to follow up on that, the fall economic statement came out and there was really no mention of persons with disabilities and financial relief on that.

I know you're saying that other barriers are creating those financial problems.

I would ask the same question of you that I asked Ms. Yee.

Have there been conversations in your circles around the need for some sort of interim benefit while these regulations get worked out, or before this benefit becomes a reality?

That's for Mr. Zein.

[Peter Zein]

I'm sorry. Can you repeat the last part?

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

I was just wondering if, in your circles, there have been any conversations around any kind of emergency benefit while we wait the year, two years or even three years for the Canada disability benefit to come.

[Peter Zein]

No, we haven't, because I don't know if anybody believes it's going to happen.

I don't know. We're a community that's kind of spread around. I haven't heard much about that at all.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

There's lost hope?

[Peter Zein]

Well, yes, there is with me.

Here I am in the hospital. Do you know why I'm in the hospital? It isn't from a disability. I had a kidney stone explode. I had pneumonia and a collapsed lung, and I went septic. I had a wound. I've been here since June. Do you know that I could go home if I had attendant care?

That's another thing. There are no units for people to move into. I have a house. My cat lives there. That's it.

We need emergency...something like that. Something to say you can find this for us. I don't really know much about that act.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Zein, and thank you, Madam Zarrillo.

That concludes our two hours. I thank the witnesses.

Is it the pleasure of the committee to adjourn the meeting?

Thank you, committee members.

The meeting is adjourned.