Human Resources Committee on Feb. 14th, 2022

[The Chair (Mr. Robert Morrissey (Egmont, Lib.)), Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Good morning. I call the meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 9 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the House order of November 25, 2021. Members are attending in the room and by Zoom. As you are aware, the webcast will always show the person speaking rather than the entirety of the committee.

Given the ongoing pandemic situation, and in light of the recommendations from the health authorities as well as the directive of the Board of Internal Economy on October 19, 2021, to remain healthy and safe, all those attending the meeting in person shall abide by the appropriate rules. As the chair, I will be enforcing these measures for the duration of the meeting, and I thank members in advance for their co-operation.

To ensure an orderly meeting, I would like to outline a few of the rules.

Members and witnesses may speak in the official language of their choice. Interpretation services are available for this meeting. You have the choice at the bottom of your screen of either floor, French or English audio. If interpretation is lost, inform me immediately and we will ensure interpretation is properly restored before resuming the proceedings. The “raise hand” feature at the bottom of the screen can be used at any time if you wish to speak or to alert the chair.

For members participating in person, proceed as you usually would when the whole committee is meeting in person in a committee room. Keep in mind the Board of Internal Economy's guidelines for mask use and health protocols.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. If you are on video conference, please click on the microphone icon to unmute yourself. For those in the room, your microphones will be controlled by the verification officer. When speaking, please speak slowly and clearly. When you are not speaking, your mike should be on mute. I will remind you that all comments should be addressed through the chair. With regard to a speaking list, the committee clerk and I will do the best we can to maintain a consolidated order of speaking for all members, whether they are participating virtually or in person. Please do not be shy to remind me.

Today's meeting is a briefing on the ministerial mandate letters.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on January 31, the committee will proceed to a briefing on the ministerial mandate letters. I would like to welcome our witnesses to begin our discussion with five minutes of opening remarks, followed by questions.

Appearing will be the Honourable Ahmed Hussen, Minister of Housing, Diversity and Inclusion; Romy Bowers from the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation; Mala Khanna from the Department of Canadian Heritage; and Janet Goulding, associate assistant deputy minister, Office of Infrastructure of Canada.

Before we begin, I would like some direction from the committee, as it is my understanding that we may have to suspend briefly for voting. There are 30-minute bells, but since everybody has the option of voting by distance, if it's the wish of the committee we would suspend for the last 10 minutes just prior to the vote so committee members can participate virtually in the vote.

Before we begin, then, I would seek agreement to extend the first hour by the amount of time that we are suspended for the vote. Is that agreeable to the committee?

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Yes. That's acceptable to us. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Okay. Thank you, Madam Kusie.

With that, we will begin with Minister Hussen.

You have five minutes, please, for your opening remarks.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, Minister of Housing and Diversity and Inclusion]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to start by acknowledging that I'm joining all of you virtually from the traditional land of the Algonquin Anishinabe peoples.

As we all know too well, this decade has had an incredibly difficult start.

Housing has a critical role to play in ensuring that we seize this moment and continue to progressively realize the right to adequate housing.

Our government has set out an ambitious agenda to make housing more affordable for everyone in Canada, tackling the issue from every angle that will have an impact. We’ll do this by making further investments in programs that are already making a difference through our National Housing Strategy, a 10‑year plan, backed by more than $72 billion in investments, to give more Canadians a place to call home.

Through our national housing strategy, we have helped house over 1.1 million Canadians since 2015. That's because we put in place different programs that address the different housing needs of Canadians. This includes more funding for the national housing co-investment fund and enhancements to the rental construction financing initiative and the federal lands initiative.

These programs to create more housing are working, but we need to free up roadblocks at the municipal level. That’s why we will be launching a housing supply accelerator fund to increase the housing supply in Canada’s large and most rapidly growing urban regions. It will include financial incentives for new housing units and measures such as upzoning, inclusion rezoning and transit-oriented development, modernized permitting systems, and a more responsive housing supply to improve housing affordability and accessibility.

Next week I will be co-hosting a national housing supply summit with the Federation of Canadian Municipalities to bring together all orders of government and all sectors. Now more than ever before, we need our provincial and municipal partners to work closely with us. I will also be working to develop a fairness in real estate action plan to ensure that there's more protection and transparency for both homebuyers and renters.

On the other hand, through Reaching Home, Canada's homelessness strategy, we will continue to support communities across Canada to prevent, reduce and eventually eliminate chronic homelessness. So far this program has helped thousands of Canadians, and I look forward to sharing an update in the coming weeks.

Similarly, through the rapid housing initiative, we will continue to create more urgently needed housing for those who need it the most. This program, Mr. Chair, is very close to my heart. We launched it a year ago and we now see that we've exceeded our targets and are on track to create over 10,000 new permanent, affordable housing units.

Over 40% of these will support indigenous families. First nations, Métis and Inuit people face some of the worst housing conditions in the country. That's why, on top of the previous supports in the programs that I have listed so far, we will be working with indigenous partners to co-develop a northern, urban and rural indigenous housing strategy, as was recommended by this committee last year.

Mr. Chair, having grown up in social housing myself, I can't overemphasize what having a reliable roof over your head does for people. I saw it first-hand, and that is why I couldn't be more committed to this mandate that is ahead of me. In my role as Minister of Diversity and Inclusion, I know just how important an equitable housing system is to creating communities where everyone feels they belong.

Even as we celebrate Black history month, recent events have made it clear that the fight against racism requires vigilance, allyship and a sustained commitment. This government will continue to combat racism and discrimination in all its forms. I'm sure members are as thrilled as I was two weeks ago when we kicked off Black history month by announcing a carve-out of $50 million through the national housing co-investment fund to support Black Canadian renters across the country.

Before I conclude, I also want to make a brief mention of the Canada housing benefit. This benefit is a prime example of why we need all orders of government to work together, as this $4-billion fund, in collaboration with provinces and territories, provides direct rental support payments to Canadians. The national housing strategy is all-encompassing, Mr. Chair, with many ambitious initiatives to make sure every Canadian has a safe and affordable place to call home.

I turn it back to you, Mr. Chair, and I would be happy to take any questions from the committee.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Minister.

We will now open the floor to questions, beginning with Mr. Jeneroux for six minutes.

Mr. Jeneroux, you have the floor.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Happy Valentine's Day, Minister. It's good to see you.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Thank you.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

I have only six minutes, as the chair has indicated, so I want to get through a whole bunch of questions quickly, if we could.

Minister, is it correct to say that the CMHC is an agency that reports to your department?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Yes.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

Approximately how many times since the election have you met with representatives from the CMHC?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

We have regular meetings to go over housing policies and also to get updates on various programs, like the rapid housing initiative.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

It's also true that CMHC has recently funded a study by a group called Generation Squeeze. Is that correct?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

That is correct.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

Is it true that this study indicated that one of the best courses of action on housing affordability was to tax Canadian's primary residences more?

Is that correct?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

I can talk to you about our government's position on that—

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

Is that correct, Minister? I have follow-up questions on that.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

I'm happy to talk about our government's position on this.

You know my position on this, both inside and outside the House of Commons. I'm happy to repeat our government's position on this question.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

It's true.

Is it also not true that, according to page 13 of the Liberal Party of Canada's “Forward. For Everyone.” document and in your mandate letter, the government will establish a tax on residential properties?

This agency reports to your department and to you, as minister, and this agency developed a report to tax homeowners more. You've met with this agency multiple times. Caucus members, as recently as December 17, have met with Generation Squeeze.

It's fair for Canadians to be suspicious of your government's motives as you continue to explore additional taxes on homeowners.

This is a slippery slope, Minister.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.

I welcome this opportunity to once again unequivocally state that the Government of Canada is not looking at charging capital gains or any surtaxes on primary residences. This is not under consideration by our government, and any suggestion otherwise is false. We've said this again and again.

I want to assure the honourable member once again that our government is not even thinking of or considering charging capital gains taxes on primary residences.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

Minister, the evidence is all there.

I laid it out for you. They report to you and you've met with them multiple times. Generation Squeeze has met with the member for Beaches—East York and the member for Vancouver Granville, again, as early as December 17.

It's a fair assessment for Canadians to be suspicious of the government's motives, regardless of how many times you say it.

I want to move on to housing supply, because we know that—

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Groups can meet members of Parliament. You know that. Different groups have met with you and other members of Parliament. It's part of our democratic process. However, our—

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

When you're about to tax homeowners more, minister, that's when Canadians are suspicious of this government's motives.

I want to talk to you about housing supply, because I know it's something that we both want to talk about.

By your own admission, how much housing supply and how many homes has your ministry been responsible for?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

We have ensured that we have housed 1.1 million Canadians since the beginning of this government in 2015. We have built over 480,000 units of housing through the various programs in the national housing strategy.

Through programs like the Canada housing benefit, in addition to building housing and preserving housing stock, we are also making sure that we put in place direct rental supports for those who need it. The Canada housing benefit is a program that is working right now in every province and territory to support Canadians.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

Minister, in question period on December 15, 2021, the Prime Minister indicated the following:

Since 2015, our government has supported the creation of nearly 100,000 new units....

Let's go with your 1.1 million and his 100,000. We'll put that aside and we'll go with your number for a second—

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

No. I said that we helped 1.1 million Canadian families meet their housing needs.

In terms of the number of units that we've built, it's 480,000 units.