Evidence of meeting #9 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was affordable.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Romy Bowers  President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation
Cliff C. Groen  Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Benefits and Integrated Services Branch, Service Canada, Department of Employment and Social Development
Annette Gibbons  Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Employment and Social Development

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

Thank you, Minister. You can probably carry that over into another answer.

Mr. Ruff, you have the floor for five minutes.

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

Alex Ruff Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON

Thank you, Chair.

Minister, housing inflation is homegrown. Bloomberg reports that Canada has the second-most inflated housing bubble in the world. In my riding alone, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, houses sold this past month, in January, for $756,000, an increase of 39.7% from a year ago. That's despite a median family income of only $61,000.

Within your mandate letter, there's a commitment to identifying how federal regulators can be better positioned to respond to the housing price fluctuations and make it more stable for Canadians. I was a bit concerned, and I'd like you to clarify, that in your opening remarks you talked about the housing accelerator fund being primarily focused on urban areas. For the rest of Canada and those of us who represent rural Canadians, how are you planning to address these fluctuating prices?

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Ahmed Hussen Liberal York South—Weston, ON

First of all, it's really important to understand that for our national housing strategy programs, for existing initiatives but also for any proposed new programs like the housing accelerator fund, we will always, always take a rural lens, a rural and remote community lens, to make sure their needs are also taken into consideration.

In addition to that, when we talk about new programs like the rent-to-own program, that will also, of course, serve Canadians who live in rural and remote communities. As well, when we talk about the federal lands initiative, for example, we have a lot of federal land in all parts of the country, not just in urban areas. Obviously, those will also be made available to build more affordable housing.

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

Alex Ruff Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON

Thanks, Minister. I would point out that in my riding of Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, the only federal lands are the military base, the 4th Canadian Division Training Centre, and the Bruce Peninsula National Park. I don't think we're building any affordable housing in either location there.

My next question, Minister, is about another commitment in your mandate letter, which is to end chronic homelessness among veterans. Can you provide any data on how you're determining the number of homeless veterans? How many to date have been housed? Is the government looking into partnering with the provinces in projects like the one being undertaken with the Homes for Heroes Foundation and the Province of Ontario? The partnership is building up to 25 tiny homes as part of a veterans village, which will help all those military veterans who are suffering homelessness.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Ahmed Hussen Liberal York South—Weston, ON

No Canadian deserves to be on the street. For any Canadian who finds themselves experiencing homelessness, that's something we're all concerned about, particularly for those who served us with honour and dedication. I know there's leadership across the country, including the program you referred to, but there's also leadership from municipalities like London, Ontario, where they've eliminated chronic homelessness among the veteran population.

Through Reaching Home, our federal anti-homelessness program, we are providing direct support to community entities to provide services to those experiencing homelessness and temporary, transitional and permanent affordable housing solutions. If you look at our spending over the last two years, we've actually doubled the support for the fight against chronic homelessness. In our throne speech and commitments, we have changed our target from reducing homelessness by 50% to a new target of the elimination of chronic homelessness in Canada. We're going to get it done in partnership with our municipalities, provinces, territories and the non-profit sector.

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

Alex Ruff Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON

My final question is going to go into a subject that I know is going to require collaboration with the provinces and the municipalities, but I think the leadership is required at the federal level.

Many ridings across the country, including mine, are facing what we call “renovictions”, where, due to the low vacancy rate and the demand being so high, tenants are being “renovicted”. The landlords are evicting these low-income housing folks to renovate, and then they can't afford to get back in there.

What steps is the federal government taking to help, either though regulation or working collaboratively with the provinces to address this?

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Ahmed Hussen Liberal York South—Weston, ON

You are absolutely right, it is something about which we are extremely concerned. We will take action, both as a government but also in collaboration with provinces and territories and using some of their tools to make sure we deal with this problem head-on. We're looking at a number of options, including using our Canada Revenue Agency tools to examine this issue and looking at the options we have to tackle this quite concerning issue.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

Thank you, Mr. Ruff. You are right on time.

We have about 18 minutes on the bell also.

Now we go to Mr. Collins, for five minutes.

February 14th, 2022 / 11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Chad Collins Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON

It's nice to see you again, Minister. It was nice seeing you in Hamilton a couple of weeks ago. You were in town to announce 109 units for the city of Hamilton and two not-for-profits. It was a $25-million investment in the affordable housing area for a rapid housing initiative. We were very appreciative of the funds and your visit.

I just want to speak to the rapid housing program, because it has been a tremendous success, as you have highlighted here this morning. As past president of CityHousing Hamilton for a number of years, from a municipal perspective and a service-provider perspective I can say that the rapid housing initiative for us was a terrific program. It was an easy application process; the funds flowed quickly to service providers, and we were able, within 12 to 14 months, to take people off the affordable housing wait-list.

Minister, can you elaborate on the successes of that program, not just in Hamilton but across the country? Have you any glimpse of where we are going in terms of further investments with the rapid housing initiative? It has been a tremendous success, and I know not-for-profits and municipalities are eagerly awaiting more investments in that area.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Ahmed Hussen Liberal York South—Weston, ON

I believe the rapid housing initiative has been an amazing success. We have demonstrated that a new, rapidly implemented housing program can build housing in a matter of months. The reason we have been able to do that is the collaboration, as you said, with municipal governments and non-profits.

This is a program that has far exceeded its targets. Its initial target was to build around 7,500 new affordable and permanent housing units. We far exceeded that, and now we're on track to build 10,250 affordable housing units in record time, from 12 to 18 months. Some of them will be in even less time. I've seen projects that went through the first round that already have people living in them and were built in four to eight months.

The rapid housing initiative is an example of what can happen when we work closely with our municipal partners, deliver the money directly to them, allow them to invest in projects as they see fit, and trust them to make those decisions. That is precisely what we have done.

In terms of the future, I hope we can continue this program, because it's working really well.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Chad Collins Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON

Thank you for that, Minister. That's good to hear.

Coming from the municipal sector and having been a member of city council in Hamilton for over 25 years, I know that the supply of housing units, wherever they sit on the housing spectrum, is largely a provincial and municipal process. From the time the application is submitted by the developer to the time it is approved by the municipality—and then whatever happens after that, should there be an appeal to the provincial level—it is largely a municipal and provincial process.

I know you have emphasized today, and in the past and in the House, how the federal government would then insert itself into that process in terms of providing assistance. We watched it recently here in Ontario, when the provincial government created a task force. There are 55 recommendations, I believe, right now that speak to ways and means by which to assist municipalities with increasing supply, to get us to that point where we can start to see prices come down and provide units for people who are in the market looking for one.

Through you, Mr. Chairman, to the minister, can you elaborate on how you and the ministry and the government are playing a role in assisting provinces and territories—but, in particular, municipalities—with that process, which traditionally has been a provincial and municipal one?

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Ahmed Hussen Liberal York South—Weston, ON

Absolutely. That's a really important question. It highlights the need for collaboration.

Many municipalities want to build more housing, and they want to build it faster, but they are encountering obstacles. An example is land. Their fiscal capacity sometimes doesn't allow them to acquire that land and build affordable housing.

Other barriers to the faster building of housing include infrastructure upgrades. These are things like needing to expand the local water treatment plant so you can build another 2,000 units of housing for middle-class Canadians. These are real challenges being experienced by small, medium and large municipalities.

We're saying, as the federal government, that if we intend to see more supply in this country we have to do our part to incentivize them—especially municipalities—to bring in things like inclusionary zoning and transit-oriented development. We want to help in terms of their capacity to do more by enabling them to hire more zoning and permitting officials, as well as helping with the cost of land so that they can build more housing.

All those things are on the table. This housing accelerator fund will go a long way toward enabling municipalities to build more housing supply faster.

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

Chad Collins Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON

Thank you, Minister.

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

Thank you, Minister. Thank you, Mr. Collins.

I'm going to get direction from the committee. We are now down to the last 13 minutes with the bells. I would suggest we suspend for 10 minutes.

Minister, we will resume with the final round of two and a half minutes, which will be Madame Chabot, Madam Zarrillo, Monsieur Jeneroux and then Madame Ferrada. That would complete the first hour with Minister Hussen.

We will suspend for 10 minutes and then resume for roughly 10 minutes to conclude.

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

Alex Ruff Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON

Chair, the voting doesn't kick off for about another 12 minutes, and then it will take a while to conduct the voting.

Is the proposal that once we have confirmation that all members of the committee have voted, including the minister, we can then reconvene?

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

That's correct. Thank you, Mr. Ruff, for clarifying.

I just assumed that we could.... The remote app is not open yet.

You've heard Mr. Ruff. It is agreeable. Once everybody has voted virtually, we will resume the meeting for the final 10 minutes.

Is that okay, Minister?

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

Ahmed Hussen Liberal York South—Weston, ON

Yes.

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

Committee members, that will be the routine.

We will follow with Madame Chabot, Madam Zarrillo, Mr. Jeneroux and Madame Ferrada when we resume.

Thank you very much.

The meeting is suspended.

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

With that, we will resume the committee's meeting and conclude with Minister Hussen.

At this time, Madame Chabot, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

Just to be clear, we're going to have four rounds of two and a half minutes, with Madame Chabot, Madam Zarrillo, Mr. Jeneroux and Madame Ferrada, to conclude the first hour.

Madame Chabot, you have the floor.

12:10 p.m.

Bloc

Louise Chabot Bloc Thérèse-De Blainville, QC

Hello, Minister. It's a pleasure to welcome you here among us to discuss your mandate letter.

In light of the questions and answers you provided, I want to emphasize that it is the social and community housing crises that represent the greatest source of concern for us. I would imagine that this is the case not only in Quebec, but elsewhere as well.

Your programs refer a great deal to affordable housing. As we know, there is a difference of opinion on the issue. Not everyone agrees on the definition of what affordable housing actually means. At one point, it was even said that $2 200 a month for rent in Montreal was affordable.

Furthermore, I do not think that the private market is greatly concerned with the real estate market or its costs.

What exactly is your action plan for social and community housing?

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

Ahmed Hussen Liberal York South—Weston, ON

Thank you for the question.

I want to start by talking about our government's efforts.

Since 2015, we have invested over 4.5 billion dollars in housing in Quebec. This led to building or repairing more than 580 000 dwellings.

Last fall, we were very pleased to announce a bilateral agreement between the governments of Canada and Quebec. This agreement will result in a combined investment of an additional $3.7 billion over 10 years to improve the housing conditions of many Quebec households in need.

As part of our commitment to end chronic homelessness, since the beginning of the pandemic, we have spent over 70 billion dollars in Quebec through the Reaching Home program.

To quickly create permanent homes for the most vulnerable, we created the Rapid Housing Initiative. Through this initiative, we have partnered with the government of Quebec to invest 179.8 million dollars in 68 projects. This represents 1 491 new dwellings in the province.

12:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

Thank you, Ms. Chabot.

Your two and a half minutes have concluded.

Madam Zarrillo, you have two and a half minutes.

12:15 p.m.

NDP

Bonita Zarrillo NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I just wanted to reiterate my call to the minister to protect the most vulnerable in this race for supply. I would mention that sometimes the applications are very complex, which adds to the time it takes, so just keep that in mind.

The minister mentioned that infrastructure is needed to get housing built, and that is certainly true for indigenous housing. In my riding, there is an impasse right now in getting sewer and water to an indigenous project. I know that in B.C. we have a willing partner in the provincial government, and I'm wondering about this. For indigenous housing, they are saying that they need a federal partner in building the infrastructure. What is the federal government committing to on that front for infrastructure, so that housing can be built on top of that for indigenous housing?

12:15 p.m.

Liberal

Ahmed Hussen Liberal York South—Weston, ON

I have no doubt that the Government of British Columbia has been a really strong partner to our government when it comes to being ambitious in the area of affordable housing. No relationship is more important to our government than the one with indigenous peoples, including those who live in urban areas. We're fully committed to working with indigenous peoples to co-develop an urban, rural and northern indigenous housing strategy following the “for indigenous, by indigenous” principle.

That work is already under way. For example, in the rapid housing initiative, almost 40% of the units created will target support for indigenous people, including those living in urban areas, and $638 million has already been allocated specifically to housing that benefits indigenous people living in urban, rural and northern communities.

When it comes to the infrastructure piece, I've had conversations with my colleague, the Honourable Dominic Leblanc. He completely supports our approach to making sure that our infrastructure investments, including investing in transit and our transfers to provinces, also leverage housing and ensure that there's more affordable housing that comes out of those investments.

The municipal housing accelerator fund will also enable municipalities to offset some of the costs that will inevitably arise when you increase housing supply, and those costs are mainly in infrastructure.

12:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Madam Zarrillo.

Now we'll go to Mr. Jeneroux for two and a half minutes. You have the floor.