Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 8th, 2007

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Madam Faille.

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

I was wondering whether Mr. Alghabra would accept to wait for the next meeting, which I understand will be on Thursday, to discuss this motion, given that the report will most probably be passed at this meeting.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

I don't think Mr. Alghabra is in favour of doing that.

Are you in favour of that, Mr. Alghabra?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Yes, that's fine.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Are you withdrawing the motion?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

I'm not withdrawing the motion, but delaying it until Thursday.

(Motion allowed to stand)

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Where is the other motion?

I'll go to Mr. Siksay.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Yes, I have tabled a motion to call the Minister of Public Safety before the committee to discuss the ever-increasing urgency of the situation at KIHC and the hunger strike that Hassan Almrei is engaging in. I believe today is day 153 of his hunger strike.

I know all members of the committee are aware that Mr. Almrei has never been charged and never been convicted. He's indefinitely detained under provisions of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act that have been ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. Almost all of the conditions of his detention, which we've done a report on, for the most part are still unresolved, and those are the reasons he began this hunger strike 153 days ago.

Chair, members will be aware that there are different kinds of hunger strikes. There's a dry hunger strike, they call it, where people don't eat or drink any water, and that's not the kind that Mr. Almrei has been on. There's a total hunger strike where they drink nothing but water. Again, that's not the kind he's on. A partial hunger strike, which he has engaged in, where he's drinking nothing but orange juice and water at this point, is extremely dangerous at the time of 150 days. I guess the closest examples are from hunger strikers in the Turkish prison system, where many hunger strikers who were on a similar diet of lemon juice and water, and some salt as well, began to die at around day 150. So it is a very, very serious juncture in that.

The issue we raised in our report around solitary confinement is also an acute issue at this point, given that Mr. Almrei is the only prisoner detained at KIHC. There is a lot of research on the effects of solitary confinement, whether that be punitive solitary confinement--and I think we would agree that isn't, in some sense, what Mr. Almrei is facing--or administrative solitary confinement, which happens for reasons other than discipline of the detainee. No matter what kind of solitary confinement it is, the psychological effects of that are extremely acute, particularly in the situation where the detainee doesn't know the charge against him, doesn't know the length of detention. Certainly that's the situation Mr. Almrei is in at the current time.

I think it's a matter of extreme urgency that we have the minister before us to put questions about this.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Siksay.

[John Cannis, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

I have a point of order, Chair. I just want to put on the record that I'm filling in for Mr. Telegdi, who unexpectedly had to leave, so I can participate as well, officially. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you. Okay.

Mr. Karygiannis.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

I'm prepared to support it, but I'm just wondering if the clerk can find out what the latest is on Mr. Almrei's condition, or maybe we can ask that four members from each of the four parties do visit Mr. Almrei and get an update from him on what he's going through.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Was that question to Mr. Siksay?

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Yes.

Bill, would you...?

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

I've been in regular contact with Mr. Almrei.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Would you entertain a friendly amendment that the committee send four members to speak to--

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

I think that's a separate issue, Chair. If Mr. Karygiannis wants to entertain another visit there, we could discuss that, but I'd like to focus on getting the minister here about the issues right now.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Okay. Is there any further comment on the motion?

Mr. Komarnicki.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

I understand, of course, it's the public safety minister who's responsible for the issues there. I understand he is appearing before the public safety committee next week, and certainly questions could be put to him there if that's what needs to happen.

We have obviously visited this issue on a number of occasions and we have various matters on our agenda. I think that with the minister already appearing before another committee in short order, and we won't get him before this committee sooner than that, if Mr. Siksay wishes to put the question to him, he should then use one of his members on that committee to put the very question he wants to bring before this group. Certainly we won't get it done any quicker, and I think our agenda would remain intact.

So I would say that this motion be opposed, but that Mr. Siksay be entitled to pursue the matter at the minister's appearance in the other committee. It really is a matter of public safety jurisdiction.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Ms. Faille.

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Has the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration already written letters, for example to the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development or to the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights? Given that the minister will appear before the Standing Committee on National and Public Security, would it be possible to ask her to answer this question? Perhaps we could send her the question and ask her to answer it at that time?

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Well, we could, but I don't believe that's the wish of Mr. Siksay. I mean, his motion is here before the committee, and I think we have to deal with that.

Mr. Karygiannis and Mr. Siksay.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Mr. Chair, I was wondering if Mr. Siksay would fill in for the NDP member on that committee where the minister is appearing and pose the question. If there's no satisfactory answer, maybe he can reintroduce the motion next week.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Okay.

Mr. Siksay.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Mr. Chair, I don't agree to those suggestions. I believe that we can't abandon our responsibility and the work that we've done on this issue already.

Clearly, the security certificate process under which Mr. Almrei is detained is in the jurisdiction of this committee, given that it's a piece of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act. This committee has done excellent work, I believe, on this issue. We're familiar with the situation at KIHC, unlike any other committee of this Parliament, because we are the ones who visited there on two occasions. I think that for us to say these questions should be raised in other committees and not here would represent dropping the ball in our case.

They should be raised at the public safety committee. I agree 100% that the minister should be grilled thoroughly on these issues when he gets there, but I also believe he needs to come to this committee and answer important questions about the situation there and the circumstances of Mr. Almrei. I don't think there's any excuse for us not pursuing this further, given the stand we have taken as a committee on this and the work we have already done.