Evidence of meeting #62 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cases.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Janet Siddall  Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Clark Goodman  Acting Director, Citizenship and Immigration Program Delivery, Operational Management and Coordination Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Rose Anne Poirier  Manager, Program Support, Case Processing Centre, Sydney, Nova Scotia, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Rosemarie Redden  Manager, Citizenship Case Review, Case Management Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Margaret Dritsas  Nationality Law Advisor, Citizenship Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Eric Stevens  Legal Counsel, Legal Services, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Samy Agha

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

Barry Devolin Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON

Thanks, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the staff for being here.

I think it's fair to say that all members of Parliament appreciate the work that you do in your department. I can tell you on a personal level that the more I've learned about this file since I joined this committee, the more I appreciate the complexity of what this department does and the importance of this issue to the people who are involved.

You said that for the people who call in about 96% can be assured that their citizenship is fine, that they are Canadian citizens. So I guess it's really the 4% that we're talking about, and if you've been following this committee, you'll know that in the past many weeks we've heard people from the 4%, so to speak. We've had many compelling stories told here that quite frankly sound like no-brainers to us, that the stories that we're hearing ought not to be a problem and yet they are. So that's what I think we're trying to dig down into in this committee and deal with.

There is one concern we've heard this morning, and I share this as well. We appreciate the fact that the department is advertising that this hotline has been set up. I know that advertising is a bottomless pit that you can just pour endless resources into and still not everyone will hear what you've done. But I think that's one concern—whether there's been enough. And I look forward to seeing some of the documents that get tabled in terms of the amount of advertising and how it has gone.

The increase in the number of calls per day suggests that the issue has a higher profile than it did before, and I imagine part of that is due to the advertising. I suspect part of it's due to the media coverage of the story that has taken place over the past couple of months.

One of the issues that come up when we've heard witnesses has to do with the way that information is conveyed to people. We've heard stories regarding people coming into one of your offices. Quite frankly we've heard stories about people coming in to MPs' offices and asking a question about their citizenship and they get told almost casually, or have been told almost casually, “Oh, by the way, you may not be a Canadian citizen”. This shakes people to their foundation if they've been in Canada for decades and all of a sudden someone drops this on them like a bombshell.

As I listened to that testimony what struck me, as an analogy, is if you went to a doctor's office and you had some tests done, you wouldn't show up two days later and have the receptionist say, “Oh, gee, I think I heard you have cancer, but I'm not sure, it could be somebody else”. The notion is that in the medical profession or community there are strict protocols in terms of how information is conveyed back to people, recognizing the sensitivity of it. Certainly having listened to the testimony, my sense was that we haven't dealt with this information maybe as carefully or as sensitively as we have in the past.

So both in terms of the 4% of the people who call in whom you cannot tell right off the bat there's no problem, but also in terms of the people who may walk into one of your offices or just call a general number rather than your hotline, are there protocols in place? Have new protocols been developed to ensure that your staff are dealing with people in a sensitive way, recognizing the way that this information may hit somebody? Can you bring us up to speed in terms of what you've done in that area and whether you feel that you've done enough?

11:40 a.m.

Acting Director, Citizenship and Immigration Program Delivery, Operational Management and Coordination Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Clark Goodman

I can respond to that question.

First of all, of course, we have the call centre out there and we have a dedicated line to answer people's questions, and if the questions cannot be answered at that point, the persons are referred to the case processing centre and they will call them back.

As far as local offices go, I have reminded the managers to be courteous with people who appear in their office, to answer their questions, and refer them to the website and the call centre to discuss their case.

If a case appears in the media that I hear about, I will call the office and speak to them about it, as an example.

Janet, do you want to add something?

11:40 a.m.

Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Janet Siddall

I would add that we do have a protocol that has been developed for dealing with these cases. The guidelines for dealing with people who may not have status in Canada are published on our Internet site, including scripts to guide our agents so that they're using sensitive language.

I have personally met with other federal government offices that may be the first point of contact. For example, I met with the chief executive officer of the Passport Office early in the year, in January. He circulated among his network reminders to be very sensitive at the level of passport officials when they are dealing with people who do not have proof of their Canadian citizenship, and to ensure that those people are properly referred back to our department. Indeed, it's only Citizenship and Immigration that could confirm whether or not someone born outside of Canada is indeed a citizen.

Likewise, I've had conversations with the Canada Border Services Agency. They have confirmed as well that if they have any cases in which people may have concerns about their citizenship status, those people will be referred to our case management branch so that they can receive a call from a knowledgeable and trained citizenship officer.

We've also had the same conversation with the Consular Affairs Bureau, of Foreign Affairs. They have also sent a network-wide message to their network abroad, reminding them that they need to be sensitive and where to go for the information.

I would have to agree with you that it can be devastating to hear the news in an insensitive manner. However, we are and will continue to make real efforts to make sure that when people have doubts about their citizenship, they can speak to someone or get information off our website that guides them through that process in a sensitive manner.

11:45 a.m.

Conservative

Barry Devolin Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON

Would—

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Andrew Telegdi

Thank you, Ms. Siddall.

Thank you. You're over by twelve seconds, so we're going to go on.

Mr. Wilson.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Blair Wilson Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the delegation from the Department of Citizenship and Immigration for being here today and for answering our questions.

Obviously the committee has done an enormous amount of work on this issue of lost citizenship, not just in this Parliament, but in the Parliament preceding this one as well. It is a very important issue to a growing number of people from whom we've heard testimony.

I have just a few questions dealing with that issue. The first is just dealing with the presentation Ms. Siddall gave to the committee, talking about dedicated resources to deal with lost Canadians. How much money has been set aside to deal with these new resources?

11:45 a.m.

Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Janet Siddall

We haven't allocated new resources. We have reallocated existing resources. We have shifted the priorities to deal with these particular situations.

We have a unit in the call centre. We've retrained or upgraded the training of the call centre agents on this. In the case processing centre in Sydney, Rose Anne's team is working directly with the clients. In terms of the cases we're putting forward to the minister for discretionary grants, it is a team that Rosemarie heads up at national headquarters.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Blair Wilson Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC

What would the dollar value be on the resources that have been reallocated? Is it $2 million? Is it $3 million?

11:45 a.m.

Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Janet Siddall

I'm not able to give you a dollar value. Because this has been an internal reallocation, we have not tracked the dollar value.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Blair Wilson Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC

Would you be able to do that in the future and provide the information to the committee?

11:45 a.m.

Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Janet Siddall

I don't know if our financial systems are such that we could do that. That would be going back to doing manual counts, asking people to count how many hours a day they spent on this type of case or that type of case, so I can't make any commitment as to whether or not we can parse out those resources.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Blair Wilson Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC

Would you know the dollar figure that's been set aside for advertising and promotion on this new issue?

11:45 a.m.

Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Janet Siddall

The current advertising campaign that we referred—the one launched last week—had a value of $300,000.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Blair Wilson Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC

You said it was launched last week?

11:45 a.m.

Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Janet Siddall

Yes, I believe it was launched the day the minister was before committee, by Groupe Cossette Communication.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Blair Wilson Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC

I'm happy to see that the minister obviously is moving forward on this issue and that the department is following suit, because it is such an important issue.

Has the department done any polling with respect to this issue, in terms of what Canadians think about lost Canadians?

11:45 a.m.

Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Janet Siddall

I'm not aware of any polling that's been done.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Blair Wilson Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC

Are there any plans that you know about for any polling to be done in the future with respect to this issue?

11:45 a.m.

Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Janet Siddall

I'm not aware of any plans. I would have to ask the question.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Blair Wilson Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC

Thank you.

Members of the committee were handed this new document from Citizenship and Immigration Canada, with brochures and documentation. When did this go to print?

11:45 a.m.

Acting Director, Citizenship and Immigration Program Delivery, Operational Management and Coordination Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Clark Goodman

I don't have an exact date for when it went to print.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Blair Wilson Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC

Was it fairly recently? I know it says 2007 on the inside cover.

11:45 a.m.

Acting Director, Citizenship and Immigration Program Delivery, Operational Management and Coordination Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Clark Goodman

This was done in response to some of the issues that the committee has been studying.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Blair Wilson Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC

Has this document been disseminated to other members of Parliament and their offices?

11:45 a.m.

Acting Director, Citizenship and Immigration Program Delivery, Operational Management and Coordination Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Clark Goodman

I can't say if it's been distributed yet.