Citizenship and Immigration Committee on April 3rd, 2008

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

You would pay so much, would you not, to bring the worker in. So how would that stand with your company? You paid to bring them in and what have you, and now to have them moved to a new location, new job, would be unfair to you, would it not?

[Rory McAlpine]

Absolutely. That's our argument. If there's a proposal here that there be some mechanism where the costs--

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Some compensation.

[Rory McAlpine]

Yes, some compensation, well....

I don't know if my colleagues can mention any particular examples or issues here.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

I would like to hear Mr. Doyle about this.

[John Doyle]

It has been our fundamental position from the outset of the question that the program needs to be rethought; it needs to be restructured. The current system we don't believe is functional and indeed creates more issues than it addresses in the narrow context of a single employer. To meet those needs, the program has created much broader and more serious issues elsewhere.

Now, failing that, we also put forward other recommendations. A lot of the dialogue I have heard this morning points to the need for temporary foreign worker advocates to educate both the temporary foreign workers and the communities they live in as to what their rights are, what the processes are, who they should go to when there is a problem, and how do they get action. That's the role we think an advocate could and should play in this context.

Last year the Alberta Federation of Labour took its own initiative and created a worker advocate office, and I believe it is still in operation. I saw a six-month report, ending in December 2007, with incredible contents. In that short period of time, more than 100 cases had to be taken on for immediate action, even though it was basically a one-person office with some part-time administrative support. To us, that says there's a tremendous need out there and that the reports we see in the news media, almost on a weekly basis, are just the tip of the iceberg.

There are many instances that are well covered and noted in the Canadian news media about how workers are being exploited, about how temporary foreign workers are being lied to by unscrupulous individuals. To us, that points out that the current structure is inadequate and that we need effective and very carefully thought out regulations to bring some order to this sector.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

I'm going to go to Mr. Telegdi.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Can you tell me your total number of employees in Brandon, and how many are not foreign workers?

[Susan Yaeger, As an Individual]

Our total employee count right now is 1,900 people.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

You have 1,900, and I'll bet you have 1,150—

[Susan Yaeger]

No, we have approximately 1,000 who are foreign workers. Some of those have now become permanent residents.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

There's a good side and a bad side to these things.

How many employees do you have in Kitchener?

[Nick Johnson, Vice-President, Human Resources, Commercial and Business Support, Maple Leaf Consumer Foods, Maple Leaf Foods Inc.]

The plant in Kitchener would currently have approximately 600 hourly workers. Including the corporate functions based there, the total head count working out of the Courtland Avenue facility would be in the neighbourhood of 850.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

When you bought Schneiders at its height, how many workers did they have?

[Nick Johnson]

There's been no change to the head count of the operating population in that Kitchener facility in the time that Maple Leaf has owned it.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

I know there used to be a lot more people. I know of quite a few people who ended up losing their jobs in the industry.

What is the wage paid in Brandon and what's the wage paid in Kitchener?

[Nick Johnson]

The average wage in Brandon would be about $17 an hour. That would be inclusive.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Are you talking about the hourly workers, or are you talking about everybody?

[Nick Johnson]

Yes, it would be the hourly workers.

And Kitchener is a difficult situation, because they have a two-tiered wage structure based on the age of the plant. But their wages would be, I believe, within a dollar of that, give or take.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

What is this two-stage wage structure? Do you want to tell me about that?

[Nick Johnson]

In 2002, prior to being owned by Maple Leaf, Schneiders negotiated a collective agreement with their employee association, and rather than reduce any wages of any of their current employees at that time, they introduced a second tier of wages for any new hires that would join the company after that date. So as retirements have increased and a younger population has come into the plant, it has come in at the lower wage rate.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Do you want to tell me what the two rates are?

[Nick Johnson]

I couldn't speak to that off the top of my head. I'm sorry; I don't know.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Maybe you can send it to the committee?

[Nick Johnson]

Certainly.