Citizenship and Immigration Committee on April 28th, 2008

[C/Supt Mike Cabana]

No. What I am saying is that investigators are assigned to specific investigations targeting criminal organizations. Investigators do not target consultants as such. For example, they may be investigating organized crime or human trafficking and in the process, they focus on an offence committed by a group involved in human trafficking. If, during the course of the investigation, some consultants are identified as having been involved in certain criminal activities, the scope of the investigation is then broadened to include the role played by the consultants in the commission of the offence.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Recently, we read in the newspaper how one immigrant allowed into Canada was a terrorist. He carried a Canadian passport that he had obtained in France. Does the RCMP directly investigate the sale of passports?

[C/Supt Mike Cabana]

Certainly. Again, our investigators are not assigned to investigate specific offences, but rather activities linked to organized crime. Consequently, if a criminal organization is involved in the sale of passports, whether forged passports or otherwise, then officers are assigned to investigate these incidents.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you, Mr. Vincent.

Ms. Grewal.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

When our committee travelled from province to province, there were many complaints from the witnesses that these unscrupulous immigration consultants mislead, misinform, or actively encourage individuals to abuse our immigration system. Does the department have any idea of how many of these unregistered consultants now operate in Canada and abroad?

[Les Linklater]

It's difficult to estimate the extent to which this activity takes place, given the global system in which we operate. It could happen in sending countries or in Canada. We don't have any sense of the extent.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Have any steps been taken or contemplated to deal with these unregistered consultants?

[Les Linklater]

Where activities by unregistered consultants come to our attention, there are opportunities for CIC, CBSA, or the RCMP to cooperate. If a complaint comes to CIC, we will refer it to CBSA or RCMP for investigation, and perhaps prosecution, under the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act or the Criminal Code, depending on the nature of the infraction.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Mr. Obhrai.

[Deepak Obhrai, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

I want to address the issue of the clientele using consultants. The real issue, of course, is the consultants. I find that the consultants charge the money and then, when they can't do the work, they send their clients to members of Parliament. They try to get their work done through the members, yet they have charged their clients for doing something.

What bothers everybody is that consultants don't often tell people when their claims are not going to be successful. They assume that the claim is going to be successful so they can charge the client, even when they know very well, based on past experience, that those claims are not going to succeed.

How are we going to stop these things? An immigration consultant should tell his client if his claim as a refugee will not be accepted. They should also recognize that members of Parliament may be willing to help constituents but are not arms of consultants who have failed their clients.

[Les Linklater]

Education and improved public information is one of the key paths that CIC recommends. For example, our recent changes to our website are very blunt, very stark. We tell applicants that they do not need to use the services of a third party representative, that only a Canadian immigration official can provide a visa.

[Deepak Obhrai, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

You can put as many things as you want on the website, but the people out there don't want to go to you guys at all. For some reason, they feel that going to a consultant will somehow expedite their file, and that if they go to you it's not going to happen. There is a perception out there that going to the department is not the successful way. The question is, how do we improve security for clients who go to consultants?

[Les Linklater]

Whether or not someone chooses to use a third party representative, at one point they need to be in contact with the department, whether it's to download forms or to search out information.

One aspect of this issue, as I was saying, is the public information aspect, which we're beefing up, and translating. Another aspect is for potential applicants to be aware that only registered third parties are acceptable in front of CIC or the IRB and that the governing bodies are able to provide them with information around members in good standing.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Okay, thank you. We'll have to stop there.

On behalf of the committee, I want to--

[Colleen Beaumier, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

I have something that I feel is very important to add to this.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Does the committee want to continue?

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Definitely. If members of the committee have questions, they should be allowed to ask them.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

That's not the point. Should we continue on a while longer?

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

How many do we have left?

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

I just have Madam Beaumier on my list right now.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

If that's all you have, we should hear her.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Okay, go ahead.

[Colleen Beaumier, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

Thank you.

I'm going start with a bit of Pollyannic crap. When I was first elected 15 years ago, I believed we were in this together with the public service. I had been a public servant in my life. I came here as a member of Parliament, and I believed we were in this together.

My big concern isn't so much about organizations that aren't registered to be consultants; we have a lot of registered consultants who are lazy. It doesn't matter how much they know; if they're lazy, they're lazy, and they're no good.

We've seen political interference in IRB decisions. We know there are immigration consultants out there, and in foreign countries, who pay our Canadian bureaucrats to get things done faster. We know that. We know that if you go to certain embassies and you slip an extra bit of money--and these aren't to foreign nationals, these are people working within our own bureaucracy--

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

On a point of order, I think this witness is making statements without giving any kind of basis or factual underpinnings or evidence.

[Colleen Beaumier, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

Well, if you want to give me another 15 minutes, I can make cases.