Citizenship and Immigration Committee on April 30th, 2008

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you.

Madame Folco is next.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Abraham, does the Canadian government visit refugee camps in Jordan, Syria, and perhaps also in Egypt in order to select Iraqi refugees?

[Abraham Abraham]

Actually, I must say that in my years of experience I have always seen the Canadian officers--

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

I'm talking about this particular Iraqi situation.

[Abraham Abraham]

Yes, in the case of selection to Canada, you actually have interviews that are conducted by the Canadian immigration officers.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

I'm not asking on the principle of it; I'm asking whether the Canadian government has, in the last three or four years, gone into Iraqi refugee centres in Jordan, in Syria, in the Kurdish area, in Turkey, and so on to choose and select refugees to come to Canada.

[Michael Casasola]

This is primarily an urban population, so many of them can travel to the Canadian embassy for the interviews that take place, and that's where a lot of that processing takes place.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

There are two kinds of processing. There are the refugees who come to the Canadian government and ask to become refugees, and there are cases in which the Canadian government goes into the camp--call it a camp, call it a high-density area if you wish--and chooses within the total number of refugees the number they are going to pick out here. What I'm asking is whether Canada is doing this as concerns the Iraqi refugees in the areas surrounding Iraq.

[Michael Casasola]

The way the Iraqis are actually referred is that they first go to UNHCR and they're registered with UNHCR. During the registration period UNHCR would identify those refugees we think may be in need of resettlement; we do an intense registration and we try to identify who is most vulnerable and who has particular protection needs. From those, we would then identify those who need resettlement and we refer them to various resettlement countries.

That's the sort of referral process that goes on. The Canadians don't necessarily operate on their own outside of that--

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Excuse me for interrupting, but the time is so short. Let me give you an example, because I'm not really getting a straight answer and I'm not sure we're on the same wavelength.

In Thailand, Canadian civil servants go to Thai refugee camps and choose a number of refugees who are then brought to Canada. Is this being done in the greater Iraqi situation? That's the question.

[Michael Casasola]

Thank you for the clarification.

UNHCR in Canada worked on what we call group processing of refugees, and that's what you're referring to. It was a process whereby we referred a large number in a particular refugee camp. In the case of Thailand, they were from Mae La Oon and Mae Ra Ma Luang camps. In this we're using the model of individually referring cases, so it isn't the same sort of model. That's simply a different processing model. The Canadians aren't going--

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Processing models are very important, I agree, but really in the end, what I'm trying to figure out is just how much Canada is doing, because in my opinion and in the opinion of some of my confrères sitting around this table, Canada is not doing all that much in spite of the very complimentary words we've heard from you this afternoon. What I'm trying to figure out is just how much more Canada should do, because we feel Canada should be doing much more.

I have a large Chaldean population from Iraq in my riding. They are very keen on helping their relatives and non-relatives, both Chaldeans and non-Christians, to come to Canada. The churches are with them. The churches have written to Mr. Harper. The Catholic churches of Canada have written to Mr. Harper to ask for Mr. Harper's help. This was last January. We've not seen very much coming out of this.

You're saying we're having difficulty getting people out. My people tell me it's absolutely impossible for a Christian in Baghdad or in Basra or anywhere else to go to any kind of official place, because he won't get there. He'll be murdered before he goes there.

How much more should we be doing? I look to concrete suggestions on your part as to what Canada should and could do to get this process to work a heck of a lot faster, because if you wait to study who is the more vulnerable--as far as I'm concerned, Iraq right now is Germany in 1935 or 1936, if not 1939.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Let's offer the committee members time for a response, please.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Yes. I think I've made my point.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Yes.

Do you have a response?

[Abraham Abraham]

Canada has two resettlement programs--three, basically, but l just limit myself to the two. One is where people privately sponsor individual citizens from here, and then you've got UNHCR's program, which comes under the government-assisted programs.

There the Canadian officers do go out. We do the pre-selection, we do the screening, we submit all the basic data, everything, and this is submitted to the Canadian immigration officers, who then come physically to carry out the interview.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

We'll have to go Mr. Wilson, who is the last person on the list. We have three minutes.

Mr. Wilson.

[Blair Wilson, Independent, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

And thank you, gentlemen, for being here. I'll be brief and leave some more time, if there is any, for anybody else.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

That isn't right. I had my hand up.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Order, please.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

You recognized it and you saw it. Don't tell me you looked to the clerk. You nodded.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

The clerk is the one taking the names.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Look, Mr. Chair, I made contact. I wanted to speak on this.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Order, please. Mr. Wilson is next. That's who I have here, and if the clerk wishes to correct me on that, that you're next, then I will go to you.

Mr. Clerk.

[The Clerk]

I never got that indication from you.