Evidence of meeting #41 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ontario.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Dawn Edlund  Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Catrina Tapley  Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Deborah Tunis  Director General, Integration, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Cathy Woodbeck  Executive Director, Thunder Bay Multicultural Association
Marion Newrick  Executive Director, Toronto, Community Action Resource Centre
Colin Gomez  Coordinator, Language Instruction for Newcomers to Canada, Naylor-McLeod Group Limited
Diane Walter  Vice-Chairperson, Board of Directors, Community Action Resource Centre

8:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. This is the Standing Committee....

Could we come to order?

You know, Mr. Kennedy, you asked me if you could sit here. You can sit here, and you can participate, but when I say “order,” that means that we have to stop talking, okay?

Thank you very much.

This is the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration, meeting 41. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we are here to study the immigration settlement and adaptation program.

We have four witnesses this morning from the Department of Citizenship and Immigration to help us with this subject. We have Dawn Edlund, associate assistant deputy minister of operations; Catrina Tapley, associate assistant deputy minister of strategic and program policy; Deborah Tunis, director general of integration; and Wally Boxhill, director of integration and resettlement program delivery.

Ladies, Mr. Boxhill, good morning to you. If you could give us a presentation of up to seven minutes, I know that members of the committee will then have some questions of you.

Ms. Edlund, the floor is yours. Thank you.

8:50 a.m.

Dawn Edlund Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Actually, my colleague Ms. Tapley will deliver the opening remarks.

8:50 a.m.

Catrina Tapley Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

And I will try to be as quick as I can, Mr. Chairman.

As you said, my name is Catrina Tapley. I am the Associate Assistant Deputy Minister of Strategic and Program Policy at Citizenship and Immigration Canada. With me today is Dawn Edlund, the Associate Assistant Deputy Minister of Operations at Citizenship and Immigration Canada, Deborah Tunis, the Director General of Integration, and Wally Boxhill, the Director of Integration and Resettlement Program Delivery.

We're pleased to be here today to discuss settlement funding. Settlement funds are used for programs and services that help address newcomers' immediate settlement needs, that support their integration into Canadian society. These include language training, information and referrals, help finding employment that matches a newcomer's skills and education, and help establishing networks and contacts in their communities.

Our funding decisions are based on meeting immigrants' needs, responsible spending, and fairness. It's important to remember that since 2006 the government has more than tripled funding for settlement services across Canada. As the committee is aware, for 2011-12 the government made a decision to reduce settlement funding by about $53 million from the national allocations outside Quebec. Despite these reductions outside Quebec, the settlement sector remains well funded. The total funding envelope for 2011-12 is over $600 million. In Ontario alone, funding has increased from $111 million in 2005-06 to $346.5 million in 2011-12. As a result of this federal spending, there has been a tremendous expansion in the availability and range of settlement services in Ontario, as well as in Toronto.

Mr. Chair, CIC funds services for newcomers where there are demonstrated needs. The level of settlement funding allocation is based on where immigrants land, and reflects changes in immigrant settlement patterns. CIC strives to ensure that funding is allocated fairly to the provinces and territories where immigrants settle. After all, it is only fair and reasonable that newcomers have access to settlement services where they live.

Three provinces will see a reduction in settlement funding for this year, with the bulk of reductions being felt in Ontario. This is because we are moving to include Ontario in the national formula for settlement funding for the first time. This is an opportunity to move toward the principle of national fairness in funding.

In the past five years, Ontario has received 63% of the funding, even though it received only 55% of the immigrants arriving in Canada outside Quebec. If the situation were to remain the same, Ontario would have received $1,000 more per immigrant than the provinces and territories outside Quebec. For that reason, starting with this fiscal year, we are going to include Ontario in the per-immigrant formula that already applies to other provinces and territories outside Quebec.

In recent years, immigrant settlement patterns have shifted. While Ontario's share of immigrant intake has declined, other provinces have seen an increase in their share of immigrant intake. As a result, some provinces--namely, Alberta, Manitoba, and Saskatchewan--will have an increase in their settlement funding allocations.

We've also seen a shift in settlement patterns within provinces. For example, over the last five years, the number of immigrants arriving in Toronto has decreased by 30%. Immigrants arriving in Ontario are settling in smaller communities such as the York region. To reflect these changes, CIC is also shifting where it funds settlement services intra-provincially to better serve immigrants.

This means expanding services in regions where newcomers are settling, such as the 905 region in the greater Toronto area. For example, the York region has benefited from a tenfold increase since 2005-06. Between the current fiscal year and 2011-12, the coming fiscal year, there will be an increase of 43%. This is because statistics show that there has been an increasing number of newcomers settling in York. This also means that funding will be adjusted for services within the City of Toronto to reflect declining landings.

Given this shift in where newcomers are settling, realigning funding across the country is the responsible thing to do, and it will allow us to achieve fairness across Canada. In recent years, CIC has moved towards using a call for proposals process for funding decisions of this nature.

Last spring, CIC issued a call for proposals process across Ontario to establish settlement service delivery for the 2011-12 fiscal year under the framework of our new approach to the delivery of our settlement program. What this means is that any settlement service provider organization in Ontario had the opportunity to submit proposals. This is a merit-based, competitive process, and all proposals were assessed in a fair and consistent manner.

CIC employees organized information and dissemination sessions for service providers. These sessions covered both the new method of implementing our settlement program and the call for proposals process. The topic was also explained in detail on the settlement website, where the process was explained, and the deadline for submitting applications was given, as were the eligibility criteria and the activity components that could be funded.

In evaluating the proposals received, our criteria included whether an organization demonstrated that it addresses service needs and programming priorities, that it has strong governance and financial management practices, and that it offers value for money. In addition, we took into account an organization's capacity to meet the terms of the contribution agreement, including appropriate financial accountability.

Funding proposals were approved only after a thorough analysis to ensure the best value for our dollar could be obtained. In early December 2010, the department communicated with all organizations that submitted proposals to provide them with formal notice of whether their proposal was successful or not.

For organizations that we are currently funding but were unsuccessful in the call for proposals process, we provided them with about four months' notice that CIC's funding would come to a conclusion on March 31, 2011. This provided them with time to work with CIC in order to wind down their operations.

Eighty per cent of organizations that are currently funded in Ontario will have a new agreement in place so they can continue to provide services in 2011-12. Regrettably, for a small percentage of organizations, the department will not be providing settlement funding for the upcoming fiscal year.

The call for proposals is a merit-based process, and while some organizations may have received funding from CIC over a significant period of time, this does not mean that new funding is automatically granted and will continue indefinitely. This is a message that departmental officials have been sending to the settlement sector for over two years.

This means that, through the call for proposals process, and as of April 2011, new agencies will offer settlement services funded by CIC, while agencies that have been providing services for years will no longer receive funding.

To minimize transition burdens on service provider organizations and newcomers, CIC has worked and will continue to work closely with the organizations that were unsuccessful in the call for proposals process. Our goal is to ensure that services are wound down in an appropriate fashion and that the impact on newcomers' needs is minimized.

As for the organizations that were successful, CIC is currently negotiating contribution agreements. These organizations submitted strong proposals that address service needs and programming priorities, have strong governance and financial management practices, and demonstrate value for money.

In negotiating and managing all contribution agreements, CIC will continue to ensure that public funding is spent appropriately and efficiently, that there is value for the money we spend, that there are strong accountability and performance oversights in place, and that we deliver high-quality services to newcomers efficiently.

We are now open to answering all the questions of the honourable members of the committee.

9 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Thank you, Ms. Tapley, for your presentation.

Mr. Oliphant has some questions for you.

9 a.m.

Liberal

Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON

Thank you all for coming here this morning and for working so hard to ensure that the programs newcomers are given actually help make a difference.

I have a couple of questions for you. When the minister presented the estimates for the numbers of newcomers coming to Canada, we saw that it was not decreasing. In fact, with much fanfare, he said that we are maintaining the highest immigration levels in Canadian history. Is that true?

9 a.m.

Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Catrina Tapley

Yes, that is true. I wouldn't say we are at the highest level in Canadian history, but it's high compared with recent years.

9 a.m.

Liberal

Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON

Last year over this year, it's about the same level?

9 a.m.

Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Catrina Tapley

It's close to the same, and soon we'll be able to release figures for next year as well.

9 a.m.

Liberal

Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON

Are the needs of the newcomers different? Are we having newcomers coming to Canada, say, from the United States, Great Britain, or France, who would have fewer needs than people from countries more significantly different, with languages different from ours, or are they the same as in previous years?

9 a.m.

Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Catrina Tapley

I think it depends on the different categories of newcomers coming to Canada. Needs for refugees are higher than for those who are coming under the economic class, for example, or refugees as compared to, in some cases, provincial nominees, or the business class--

9 a.m.

Liberal

Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON

But the needs would generally not have decreased in the last couple of years?

9 a.m.

Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Catrina Tapley

No, I would say that needs have not decreased.

9 a.m.

Liberal

Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON

In my experience, they've increased, at least in the area I live in. The refugees may have very high needs, yet the global budget has been cut by $53 million. The minister is spending a lot of time, as is the media...that Ontario has taken a large hit, which is true, but the whole program has dropped $53 million.

Am I correct on that?

9 a.m.

Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Catrina Tapley

You are correct.

9 a.m.

Liberal

Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON

So there is new funding for three provinces, but for the rest of the country it's down, so that the global budget is down by $53 million.

9 a.m.

Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Catrina Tapley

The global budget is down by $53 million, and then how we allocate resources outside Quebec depends on the national funding formula. That funding formula is derived by a couple of things, but one is the level of immigrants landing in particular provinces. We use a three-year sliding scale. I think this year we used 2007, 2008, and 2009. So it's an average of those three years. Refugees count for a higher percentage under the formula, because they have special needs.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON

Does the department keep statistics on where people go after they've landed--within the first three months, six months, 12 months, 20 months, three years? Anecdotally, we're experiencing that people who have settled in certain provinces end up gravitating to the major cities, because that's where they may have friends, even though they originally landed in a different province.

9:05 a.m.

Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Catrina Tapley

We do keep those statistics, as a matter of fact. In fact, we have recently published a study on the interprovincial mobility of immigrants in Canada. We looked at immigrants who landed from 2000 to 2006, based on the 2006 tax year. What we found was that immigrants move from some provinces more than others. Ontario retains a large number of immigrants. About 91% of the immigrants who come to Ontario stay in Ontario. The Atlantic provinces have a much lower retention rate. There are differences based on whether immigrants are family class or business investors. In addition, we found an east-west shift. So the net beneficiaries of that migration are actually Alberta and British Columbia. Those were the provinces that had a net increase overall.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON

In this, much is done about landing, which is concerning me, and not much has been said about settling, which is a little different from landing, Settling I think takes a long time.

The other thing is the issue of Ontario and proportionality. The Ontario Minister of Citizenship and Immigration has said that when Quebec is factored into the whole, Ontario is actually receiving proportionate funding. When Quebec is not factored in, Ontario is receiving disproportionate funding.

How do you respond to Dr. Hoskins' statements on that?

9:05 a.m.

Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Catrina Tapley

I'm not 100% sure I follow. The figures that I quoted in my opening remarks are based on the funding formula that applies to provinces outside Quebec. Those were the 63% of the funding with 55% of the landings; those were the figures I had used in my remarks.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON

Sure, but if you do include Quebec, which has a different formula that is not based on anything to do with immigration but on the economy.... I've been trying to understand it myself.

When we factor in those, we actually see that it's almost exactly due proportional across Canada, that Ontario is receiving fair funding. My concern is that we're actually looking at apples and oranges. If we're looking at proportional funding, we have to look at the whole of Canada, ten provinces and three territories. We can't suddenly exclude one large population area as though we're talking, statistically, in a valid way.

I actually think that Ontario is probably, when we're factoring in all the ten provinces and the three territories, getting proportional funding, and now will not get proportional funding.

9:05 a.m.

Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Catrina Tapley

Mr. Chairman, I think it's difficult to make a comparison between the Quebec agreement and the funding formula that's used for other provinces. In Quebec, one of the key differences is that Quebec has responsibility for selection as well, which is something that the federal government retains vis-à-vis other provinces. So I find it hard to make a direct comparison.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON

It's almost impossible, but in the actual dollars transferred, I don't think it is impossible...that there'd be a difference, which is a concern.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

I'm afraid you're over your time.

Mr. St-Cyr.

February 8th, 2011 / 9:05 a.m.

Bloc

Thierry St-Cyr Bloc Jeanne-Le Ber, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank the witnesses for being here today.

I see that the overall budget has been decreased. We could discuss that, but it is a political issue. You are not the ones who determine it.

I would like to bring up a second problem, the one that immigrant support agencies face. Funds are shifted to respond to a new reality, in other words, to places where immigrants are landing. That's how I understand it. Although, in principle, I find it commendable and understandable, I'm a little stunned by the brutality of the measure, partly because I am familiar with these types of agency. We all have them in our constituencies, especially in the urban ones. These are human beings who are working for these agencies, and we should not move them from one city to another as if they were a troupe. They have lives. They are settled in. As you said, a number of these agencies have been around for a long time. Some newcomers depend on them. And to use the example you gave us, all of a sudden, we are told that the need is now in York and we have to find a way to move everything there in a year.

So, I'm wondering something. Could you do the same thing if it involved public servants? Could you decide that, out of 60 CIC employees working in Toronto, 32 would be sent to York, 22 to Alberta, 3 to Manitoba and so on? Can you imagine such a brutal and quick transition in the public service, or is this process only possible because these agencies respond to calls for offers and decisions to fund them are made from year to year?