Citizenship and Immigration Committee on March 27th, 2012

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Okay.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

I don't think we get enough criticism for having allowed dangerous foreign criminals to stay in Canada for years and to cycle back in to the country. I think the changes with respect to biometrics, electronic travel authorization, greater information sharing, and accelerated removals of convicted foreign criminals should have been done a long, long time ago, and it's well past time. I hope that when all these measures come forward throughout the course of the next year or so we will get cooperation in Parliament for their expeditious adoption.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you.

Mr. Davies.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you.

Minister, I think I can help you with that request for criticism.

I wanted to talk about the designated safe countries provision under Bill C-31. This is the proposal you have in your bill that would allow you, on your own—without the committee that you've now said you were wrong to have praised for being transparent and clear—to designate a country as safe for certain refugees.

Now, we know that these people who come from a safe country will have no appeal to the refugee appeal division, only to Federal Court. I'm aware that you're not a lawyer, but I assume you're aware that an appeal to the Federal Court is not an appeal on the merits of a decision; it's an appeal only on procedural fairness grounds.

You've also said that this complies with a statement of the UN High Commissioner for Refugees and that he approves of the practice of designating certain countries as safe. However, the UN High Commissioner actually said that if a country designates certain countries as safe, there must be an appeal on the merits of any initial decision, something that your bill explicitly does not have.

So why did you remove the appeal to the refugee appeal division from the previous bill for refugee claimants from so-called safe countries when you agreed that it was a good thing in the past, and in violation of the statement of UN High Commissioner for Refugees?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

I reject the premise of the question.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Which part do you reject?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Well, I think all parts.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Can you explain to us what part of that was not true?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Please let him continue.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

I'm looking for the actual quote—I'd be happy to get it to you—from António Guterres, the UN High Commissioner for Refugees, who has said to me privately and has said publicly that—to paraphrase—designating certain countries not normally known to produce refugees for accelerated treatment is a perfectly legitimate tool in an asylum system that complies with the 1951 convention.

Mr. Abraham, his representative, said at this committee in 2010 much the same thing. As long as you don't bar access to asylum based on a country designation, as long as the designation is used to accelerate the treatment of a claim, it is a legitimate use.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I just want to know, because if I'm wrong, I want to be corrected. Did they say anything about there being an appeal on the merits of the decision in the case of a safe country? Because we can check that. Do you—

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Guterres absolutely did not. If you want to point to me anything in the UN convention that talks about an appeal, let me know what it is, because there isn't anything. The requirement of the convention is essentially this: a commitment of non-refoulement. A country must have a system available to assess the legitimacy of a claim as to whether someone has a well-founded fear of persecution on various enumerated grounds.

We provide every claimant, under Bill C-31, with access to a—

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

So we can find—

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

—fact-based claim on the merits of their claim at the IRB. There is no refugee appeal division for any claimant now. The creation of the refugee appeal division, which will be available to the vast majority of failed claimants, is a new provision that we did not initially propose in Bill C-11 in 2010.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I know.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

We don't think it's necessary for people who are making claims from countries not normally known to produce refugees.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I think that's the end, Mr. Davies.

I want to thank you, Mr. Minister, Madame Deschênes, Mr. Yeates, and Mr. Linklater, for coming to both parts of this meeting. Your comments have been greatly appreciated. You are all excused.

As you can probably tell, we are not having an in camera meeting now. We will have an in camera meeting on Tuesday, April 3, at a place to be announced, for an hour, and then we will have a meeting via teleconference with representatives from the German government on the security report.

This meeting is adjourned.