Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 1st, 2012

Evidence of meeting #35 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was detention.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Bill C-31, An Act to amend the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, the Balanced Refugee Reform Act, the Marine Transportation Security Act and the Department of Citizenship and Immigration Act

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Andrew Wlodyka Barrister and Solicitor, As an Individual

Jennifer Egsgard Member, Human Rights Watch Canada

Bill Frelick Director, Refugee Program, Human Rights Watch

Meb Rashid Medical Doctor, Crossroads Clinic, Women's College Hospital

David Matas Lawyer, As an Individual

Christine Hyndman Manager, Immigration Policy, Policy and Research Group, Department of Labour, New Zealand

Stephen Dunstan General Manager, Settlement and Attraction Division, Immigration Group, Department of Labour, New Zealand

Fraser Richards Acting Director, Legal Business, Legal Group, Department of Labour, New Zealand

6 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Thank you.

6 p.m.

NDP

Jinny Sims NDP Newton—North Delta, BC

Thank you.

6 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Mr. Karygiannis, you have up to five minutes.

Mr. Karygiannis is with the opposition Liberal Party.

6 p.m.

Liberal

Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

Thank you, and good morning, Down Under, if I might say.

In coming up with the legislation you've got in front of your Parliament today, did you have an opportunity to discuss this with the Canadian department and/or our minister?

6 p.m.

Manager, Immigration Policy, Policy and Research Group, Department of Labour, New Zealand

Christine Hyndman

I have not been party to discussions. There may have been some general discussion around things that countries were thinking of, but we haven't undertaken consultation, as far as I'm aware.

6:05 p.m.

Liberal

Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

Do your colleagues, Mr. Richards and Mr. Dunstan, know of any discussions with our minister, your minister, and/or the department in Canada?

6:05 p.m.

Fraser Richards Acting Director, Legal Business, Legal Group, Department of Labour, New Zealand

No, I know of no discussions.

6:05 p.m.

General Manager, Settlement and Attraction Division, Immigration Group, Department of Labour, New Zealand

Stephen Dunstan

No, we don't.

We've obviously been aware of the Canadian bill going through, but our legislation was developed in New Zealand for our circumstances.

6:05 p.m.

Liberal

Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

You've got about, what, 300 people who come into your country as refugees per year, if I remember the number?

6:05 p.m.

Manager, Immigration Policy, Policy and Research Group, Department of Labour, New Zealand

Christine Hyndman

At present. It was around two and a half thousand ten years ago—

6:05 p.m.

Liberal

Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

And the number has dropped.

6:05 p.m.

Manager, Immigration Policy, Policy and Research Group, Department of Labour, New Zealand

Christine Hyndman

Yes, it's much lower now.

6:05 p.m.

Liberal

Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

How did that number drop? What did you do?

6:05 p.m.

Manager, Immigration Policy, Policy and Research Group, Department of Labour, New Zealand

Christine Hyndman

We instituted some other mechanisms. A major one is advanced passenger processing, which means that everyone who is checking in on a flight with a trip where they will eventually end up in New Zealand is checked against the immigration computer system.

6:05 p.m.

Liberal

Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

I appreciate that.

Out of the two and a half thousand people who applied for refugee status years ago, how many were found to be legitimate refugees?

6:05 p.m.

Manager, Immigration Policy, Policy and Research Group, Department of Labour, New Zealand

Christine Hyndman

Fewer than 10%. At that point around 80% to 90%—

6:05 p.m.

Liberal

Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

They were found to be legitimate refugees?

6:05 p.m.

Manager, Immigration Policy, Policy and Research Group, Department of Labour, New Zealand

Christine Hyndman

No, the other way round. At that point, around 10%, I think, were gaining refugee status each year, so maybe around 200 to 250 of them.

6:05 p.m.

Liberal

Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

Okay.

I've heard from my colleague from the NDP that your minister calls the migrants “queue jumpers”. Has your minister used that term?

6:05 p.m.

Manager, Immigration Policy, Policy and Research Group, Department of Labour, New Zealand

Christine Hyndman

He has used that term.

6:05 p.m.

Liberal

Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

He has.

Has your minister used the terms “smuggled migrants and bogus asylum claimants”?

6:05 p.m.

Manager, Immigration Policy, Policy and Research Group, Department of Labour, New Zealand

Christine Hyndman

I can't confirm that, I'm sorry.

6:05 p.m.

Liberal

Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

You wouldn't expect a minister to use those terms, would you, and let me repeat, “smuggled migrants and bogus asylum claimants”?

6:05 p.m.

Conservative

Roxanne James Conservative Scarborough Centre, ON

Excuse me, I have a point of order.

6:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

A point of order.

Just one minute, Ms. Hyndman. We're going to have a little dispute here.

Ms. James.