Evidence of meeting #9 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was year.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Sharon Chomyn  Director General, International Region, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Lillian Zadravetz  Immigration Program Manager, Chandigarh, India, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Sidney Frank  Immigration Program Manager, New Delhi, India, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Kent Francis  Acting Immigration Program Manager, Manila, Philippines, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Naeem  Nick) Noorani (President and Chief Executive Officer, Destination Canada Information Inc.
Colin Busby  Senior Policy Analyst, C.D. Howe Institute
Sima Sahar Zerehi  Communications Coordinator, Immigration Network

11:50 a.m.

Director General, International Region, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Sharon Chomyn

My personal view is that I think if people choose to take advantage of this visa—we certainly will be encouraging them to do that—it will provide quite a bit of relief in the category of parents and grandparents. We are all parts of families, and we all understand that we want to have family members with us at certain points of time in our lives. We would like to be able to have them visit. We would like them to stay longer or shorter. I think that this particular instrument will provide a great deal of flexibility.

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

Ted Opitz Conservative Etobicoke Centre, ON

What are some of the things that you find—this could be addressed to anybody—that bottleneck the system for you? What are certain things that affect processing times that you would like to eliminate if you could?

11:50 a.m.

Director General, International Region, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Sharon Chomyn

Perhaps I can start off, and one of my colleagues could continue.

An unpredictable influx of applications can create bottlenecks. There can be a natural disaster—for example, an earthquake in Haiti--that can create a bottleneck. There can be unexpected problems with technology that can create a bottleneck. There can be variations. There can be the activities of fraudulent consultants who can flood us with applications that are particularly problematic and take longer than normal efforts to process. There are also others.

Perhaps I'll hand it over to one of my overseas colleagues to continue.

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

Ted Opitz Conservative Etobicoke Centre, ON

Mr. Francis, perhaps.

11:50 a.m.

Acting Immigration Program Manager, Manila, Philippines, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Kent Francis

One of the bottlenecks that we encounter here in the Philippines, as I have mentioned in my opening remarks, is that sometimes there are simple problems communicating with clients. The mail service can be unreliable, and we notice this particularly with some of our parents and grandparents when we ask them to undergo medical examinations, for instance. We send a follow-up to them, and they do not receive and have not received the original medical instructions. That creates a bottleneck. Often, as is the case with parents and grandparents, they're not in as good health as the rest of the population. They tend to take a little longer to clear their medical. Again, that creates a bottleneck.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Ted Opitz Conservative Etobicoke Centre, ON

I think I'll pass the rest of the time to Mr. Leung.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Chungsen Leung Conservative Willowdale, ON

Thank you.

My question primarily has to do with flexibility in our staffing. We know that when the output is limited, and we cannot control the input, a bottleneck is created in the throughput. I'm impressed by the staggering amount of applications that we process. If the output changes, either by increasing or decreasing, how much does the post in New Delhi or Manilla have to ramp up to meet those demands? Is there a long processing time after a particular disaster to meet that heavier demand for output? Is it a month or two months? Do we have people on standby to ramp up?

Ms. Chomyn?

11:55 a.m.

Director General, International Region, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Sharon Chomyn

This is something that we control from headquarters. There is a portion of the budget that's set aside every year for temporary duty assignments. These are officers we send overseas for a period of several weeks at a time, as opposed to officers who are stationed overseas for years at a time. We expect that there are going to be shortfalls. People get sick, people have to be away from the mission, and we are prepared to send temporary duty in for those types of situations.

There are other situations where volumes grow beyond the capacity of the mission to process, and we monitor this proactively from headquarters, keeping track of what's coming in and what's going out. We have a process that runs on a quarterly cycle. Program managers are able to flag to us things that may affect their ability to process all the applications that are being submitted. We have a management group that meets at least quarterly to review those requests, and we also proactively contact managers when we're able to see from our own analysis at headquarters that backlogs may be forming. In this case, we decide as a management group how to address those issues through temporary duty.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Thank you.

Madame Groguhé.

11:55 a.m.

NDP

Sadia Groguhé NDP Saint-Lambert, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for your information.

My question is about the government's announcement concerning the super visa for parents and grandparents, which will allow multiple visits. This super visa is worrisome, though, since it will have requirements attached to it, including the obligation to have health insurance and to have a minimum income. Some people, of which I am one, think that these requirements are going to create a two-tier system.

Could you give me your opinion on this? Also, what was the reaction in your respective communities?

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Ms. Chomyn.

11:55 a.m.

Director General, International Region, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Sharon Chomyn

I'm not a policy-maker. I represent a group that delivers policy as it's designed by the department and on the instructions of the minister.

The eligibility requirements set out for this visa include the ability on the part of the sponsor or the host to support a parent, and the requirement that medical insurance be there. These issues reflect a balance between a desire to facilitate visits to Canada of parents and grandparents for longer periods and perhaps more frequently than had been possible in the past, and the interests of Canadian taxpayers, who perhaps feel some of the pressure of obtaining health care for their own family members. It seems to be a balance that was achieved through discussions with various stakeholders.

I'm a little concerned that there seems to be a belief that missions might use this type of instrument sparingly. I would like to assure the members of this committee that our instructions to missions are to facilitate the issuance of this type of visa. We will be monitoring this from headquarters and if necessary reinforcing instructions to ensure that the minister's wishes are carried out as he's expressed them.

Noon

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

We're probably getting into an area that's bordering on policy, in which case the question should be directed to the minister, if and when he comes, but you may proceed. I simply caution you that some of the questions you're asking are policy, and it's unfair to ask these witnesses.

Noon

NDP

Sadia Groguhé NDP Saint-Lambert, QC

I have a second question.

You all talked about shorter processing times by the provincial programs. I would like to know about the improvements that have been made. Could improvements not be made in the processing of applications in other categories? Is it possible to envisage this? If so, in what way?

Noon

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Okay, we need someone to say something. Who's my fall-back?

Noon

NDP

Sadia Groguhé NDP Saint-Lambert, QC

Mr.—

Noon

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Ms. Zadravetz, do you have any comments?

Noon

Immigration Program Manager, Chandigarh, India, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Lillian Zadravetz

We only do temporary, not permanent, so the provincial nominee program doesn't really apply to Chandigarh, but it would to Delhi.

Noon

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Ms. Chomyn.

Noon

Director General, International Region, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Sharon Chomyn

Thank you.

I'm monopolizing everyone's time today, and I apologize for that, but I'd like to answer your question.

The department is actually in the middle of a major modernization process in which we're looking at the technology that we use to process applications. We're looking at the policies behind the programs. We're looking at the resources and how they're allocated. We're looking at the introduction of new initiatives such as the visa application centres that replace our front counters. We're looking at our applications, which in some cases now have to be filled out by hand using paper. We're hoping to turn all of those processes into electronic processes by introducing the concept of e-payments, plus other initiatives that for all of our business lines will make the experience, hopefully, more comfortable and faster. And with initiatives such as visas being valid for a longer period, we hope they'll have to interact with us less often while still being able to visit Canada as they wish to and need to.

Noon

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Thank you, Ms. Chomyn.

That concludes our time with the four of you this morning.

I'd like to thank you, Ms. Chomyn, Ms. Zadravetz, Mr. Frank, and Mr. Francis. I have no idea what time it is over there. I'm sure it's an awful hour. On behalf of the committee, I thank you.

What time is it over there, Ms. Zadravetz?

Noon

Immigration Program Manager, Chandigarh, India, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Lillian Zadravetz

It's 10:30 in the evening.

Noon

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Oh dear. Well, I hope you had dinner.

On behalf of the committee, I thank you for your presentations.

We will suspend.

12:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Okay, we're going to start the second hour.

We have three witnesses, two by video conference from Toronto and one here in Ottawa.

Each of you has up to eight minutes to speak, and then members of the committee will have some questions for you.

Mr. Noorani, you can start first, please. Thank you.

12:05 p.m.

Naeem Nick) Noorani (President and Chief Executive Officer, Destination Canada Information Inc.

Thank you. It's a pleasure and an honour to be here.

In the past year I've travelled across Canada speaking to about a thousand immigrants one on one, and I've heard stories and challenges from them first-hand. The fact is, immigrants are not succeeding to their abilities. Yet we're still a desirable country for immigrants, and that leads of course to the long waiting list that we're here to discuss today. As Minister Kenney rightly pointed out, the biggest contributor to the wait list is that we're getting more applications than we can process. The answer, according to me, is not to increase approvals, but to reduce applications by making the qualifications more stringent in some critical criteria. This will ensure we get the best, most appropriate immigrants, who will in turn settle in faster.

Before we adjust those criteria, we have to review and evaluate all applications prior to a year ago, and maybe even start afresh. The immigrants on the wait list now have been waiting for their visas for years, and many are now coming in their late fifties. It's hard enough for a Canadian at the age of 50 to get a job, so imagine what it's like for a newcomer with language and credential challenges.

I would never have suggested this from a humanitarian perspective, but in June last year the change in instructions meant 80% of the immigration quota per year was reserved for those in the backlog. This is great to reduce the backlog, but the problem is that the guy who applied when he was a 42-year-old banker back home is now a 56-year-old struggling in Mississauga. This is an actual example of a new immigrant who was a bank vice-president back home.

The people who get preference are those who fall into the 29 occupational categories to a maximum of 500 per category on a first-come, first-served basis, with a cap of 10,000. We are not getting any fresh applications outside of these 29 categories. A quick look at the occupations list shows that it is calling mostly for licensed professionals in health care and trades, or cooks and labourers. Where are the salespeople? Where are the HR people and other unlicensed professionals who have the soft skills and fewer credential barriers to success?

This list was created based on the research of Canada's labour needs, but it hasn't taken into account the licensing and credential barriers that immigrants face in many of the professions. For example, specialist physicians, dentists, psychologists, and electricians get their immigration to Canada approved based on their profession being on the list. My contention is that this list and other immigration requirements are setting up immigrants for failure.

We should now start taking new applications, but with a higher emphasis on age and language, and I'm going to talk about that. With that said, the first criterion that needs to be changed is the age requirement. Currently, the age requirement for maximum points to enter Canada ranges from 21 to 49, and that range I submit is too wide. We need to break that down, and the points for age should be broken down into blocks of 10. For example, applicants who are 21 to 31 will receive 10 points, 32 to 42 get eight points, and so on. Younger immigrants learn the language and the soft skills they need to succeed faster.

Second, let's increase the points for language and drop what's right now the basic and the moderate proficiency or no proficiency. Research reports coming in year after year talk about one thing: immigrants with low language skills are not making the cut. They're doomed to a lower subsistence level. As things stand today, if you have a PhD and the requisite work experience with moderate language skills in one official language, you can still get in, but that will not translate into employment. That's the reality. We're not helping these immigrants by letting them into Canada. They're not going to be a part of our economic growth. This will reduce the flood of applications immediately to only those who have the right tools to succeed. Those who do not meet the language requirements will not clog the queue.

Third, we need to ensure that immigrants are fully aware of the barriers they're going to face before they immigrate. They should know how long it's going to take: on average, five to ten years. And then they should know how many years it's going to take for them to be able to practise in their fields, specifically as far as doctors and engineers are concerned. As it stands now, immigrants applying under the skilled worker category, based on the occupation list, understand that if you're in one of these professions, you're wanted, needed, and you're going to have no problem finding work and succeeding. That's what the list is telling them, but that's not true, because there's a huge gap between the needs of the labour market and whether immigrants can fill these gaps, because licensing is a separate issue altogether.

We need to start looking at ways for applicants in licensed professions like health care and trades to start the process of having credentials recognized before they land. Before visas are granted, Canada should show they have contacted the appropriate licensing board in Canada, understood the process for re-licensing, and perhaps even started the process. In fact, even unlicensed professionals would do better if they knew about the barriers they were going to have when it comes to the famous “no Canadian experience”.

Even with excellent language skills, immigrants often don't have the soft skills that Canadian employers want in their staff. There needs to be a course on self-skill training, which immigrants lack, and of course one on corporate culture and working in Canada. An immigrant holding a certificate proving that he or she has understood the differences between doing business in Canada and doing business in their home country, before they are in Canada, would ease employers' hesitation in employing them.

These are hard decisions, but we need to do what's best for the future of Canada. Most importantly, we need skilled immigrants in Canada who can speak the language, hit the ground running, bring innovation, create jobs, and pay taxes.

Thank you.