Citizenship and Immigration Committee on April 8th, 2014

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Ms. Madawa, to what extent would this address successfully some of the challenges you've raised?

[Humaira Madawa]

I believe it's already an improvement. Going from two years to one year, it's a shorter time, so—

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Let's say we go to zero. I'm talking about the fast process to get landed immigrant status if you're an abused woman.

[Humaira Madawa]

As Mr. Waldman mentioned before, it's a cost-benefit situation. We have to analyze costs and benefits. If we get rid of it completely, there are other measures, such as interviews in their native countries before they're sponsored to see if the marriage is a marriage of convenience or a real marriage. I think there could be other measures implemented instead.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe]

You have one more minute.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

I thought I was going to run out of time so quickly.

I'll give it up.

I think you have covered the issues that I wanted to raise. Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe]

Thank you, Mr. McCallum.

Mr. Shory, you have the floor.

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I also thank our witnesses.

Through you, Madam Chair, it seems that the opposition's sole agenda is to talk about conditional residence in Canada, but I want to share with everyone some things that numerous witnesses in this committee have mentioned. They have identified issues such as language barriers and a lack of information in foreign languages. They also talked about the fear of being stigmatized upon marriage breakdown and about parents who are desperate to get their daughters married in western countries. They also talked about a lack of employment and training and the recognition of foreign credentials, of course, and all these other issues, which I have not heard about even once from my colleagues from the opposition.

My first question will be to you, Ms. Herenda and Ms. Madawa. In your opinion, what can we do better to educate women pre-arrival to Canada or at least very soon after they come to Canada to ensure they are aware of the resources at their disposal should they be abused?

Ms. Madawa, I liked it when you mentioned something about a mandatory integration program. What are your proposals?

[Humaira Madawa]

As I mentioned before, this should be part of their sponsorship application in their native countries when they're applying. I'm sure there are interviews and other steps that are taken, but the integration should be an integration course or maybe an information session should be mandatory. They can be informed regarding Canadian values and rights, and also, as I said, employment opportunities because employment would make these women less vulnerable financially and it would also help them step out of isolation.

It would be a good idea to implement this in foreign embassies.

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

What is your opinion, Ms. Herenda?

[Lorris Herenda]

Well, particularly in York region, we have wonderful welcome centres, which are settlement services for new immigrants, and they utilize them extensively.

One thing that's lacking in these particular centres is actual support systems or counselling services for women who have disclosed abuse. The whole interview process doesn't really identify any risk factors associated with domestic violence. They're only addressing settlement, language, employment, and job-seeking opportunities, but not the relationship and cultural component. That educational part has to be introduced simultaneously in those centres.

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Mr. Waldman, I want to talk a little bit about the process of exceptions in this conditional residence requirement. I'm sure you also know and you actually said that you understand the reasoning behind the conditional visa. I'm going to read you a list of acceptable evidence in cases of abuse or neglect. It is not exhaustive, I should note, but it provides a good picture of the threshold used to determine abuse or neglect by a sponsor.

Let me start with evidence of abuse or neglect, or that the sponsor failed to protect from abuse or neglect: court documents of protective orders, including release, no contact, or bail orders; orders pending trial or appeal; recognized orders or peace bonds; probation orders following conviction; conviction certificates; victim impact statements, and of course it must clearly state that abuse occurred or is believed to have occurred; letters or statements from women's shelters or domestic abuse support organizations; letters or statements from family services clinics; letters or statements or reports from a medical doctor or a health care professional; sworn statement affidavits; police incident reports or related documents; reports indicating that passport and travel documents were withheld and the police had to help to retrieve them; photos that show the victim with injuries; voice mail or hard copies of emails; affidavits from a friend, family member or neighbour, co-worker, staff member, supportive agency, or law enforcement, etc.

Given the wide range of options available to use the exception, it is my opinion, with all due respect, Mr. Waldman, that this does not constitute an exceptionally high threshold of proof.

[Lorne Waldman]

I understand what you're saying, of course, but the first difficulty with that is that the woman isn't aware of the exceptions. But she's definitely aware, because she's told when the visa is issued and she's told when she comes into the country, that she has a conditional visa and she has to stay with her husband for two years or else she'll be deported.

The husband holds that as a sword over her head for two years. So yes, you're right. If she gets access to a website, if she can read the website and understand, there's a lot of evidence. Of course, as a lawyer I can tell you that at the end of the day, it's going to be in the discretion of the officer whether he or she accepts the evidence and there are many cases where they won't.

Leaving that aside, the difficulty that we have in all of these cases is that the woman is aware of the threat from the moment she arrives, that she has to stay here for two years. She may not be aware and she may never have access to the information that will free her.

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

The message I am getting from you, Mr. Waldman, is that in reality this conditional visa is not an issue if before they come to Canada, the women are aware of and educated about the fact that they have the rights and resources that they can use in Canada. Then the conditional visa would not be that big an issue.

[Lorne Waldman]

I think it would help if we were sure that in every case the woman was made aware in advance that if she's the victim of abuse she has recourse. I think that would be an improvement over what I think is the general rule now, where most women are aware they have this condition and aren't aware they have any recourse.

Having said that, I've dealt with many women in abusive relationships, and I find it so distressing because the woman has the courage to leave and then a week later she goes back. It's such a horrible situation of vulnerability. By adding this, you're just making the woman more vulnerable. If you haven't dealt with women who are in abusive relationships, you can't understand what I'm saying.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Shory. Your time is over.

Mr. Harris now has the floor.

If we hear the bells calling members for a vote, I will have to interrupt you.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you.

It's a little distressing to hear my colleague across the way talking about all these exceptions and these wonderful things that are there for people to break free. But if you're a person who's come from another country, you know nobody here but your spouse, you're in that home, you don't speak the language, and you're completely isolated, then you're not going to know about these things and you're not going to have access. As. Mr. Waldman said, the only thing you do know is that if you leave you'll be deported. That's the only thing that they 100% always know about.

Mr. Shory talked about our sole agenda of seeking to remove the two-year conditional PR. It's very easy to see that when witness after witness tells us this is a problem. I don't know why you guys have such a difficult time listening to what witnesses say, whether it's here or about the Elections Act or Canada Post or whatever the issue is. You're just going to keep going on.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

I have a point of order, Madame Chair.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe]

Mr. Menegakis, you have the floor.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

On a point of order, I think the member is abusing his time here. He's using it for partisan political reasons, and I would have him rethink his approach.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe]

Thank you, Mr. Menegakis. It is not exactly a point of order. The member has a certain latitude in that regard.

However, I would ask Mr. Harris to address the Chair and not address his colleagues directly. I would also ask him to ensure that his questions are related to the subject being studied. Thank you.

Mr. Harris, you have the floor.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you very much.

I would certainly appreciate it if the government changed their approach and attitude to issues like this so we could address violence against women.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

On a point of order again, Madame Chair, we have witnesses here. I would ask the member to question the witnesses and make his comments there. If he wants to discuss things regarding the government, I'd be happy to excuse the witnesses and we can have that discussion between us here.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe]

Once again, Mr. Harris, please focus on the subject we are studying.