Evidence of meeting #101 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was irb.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant
Thank you.
Before we begin that, may I ask if you were sent the scope of this study?
12:15 p.m.
Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Senior Personnel Secretariat, Privy Council Office
Yes.
As we explained to your colleagues, our role is really with regard to the appointments process more generally. I'm happy to take questions on specifics to the IRB, but we are very much about supporting the entire government system—
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant
Our committee is responsible for oversight of the IRB, and we only received about a paragraph on the IRB in your opening statement.
12:15 p.m.
Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Senior Personnel Secretariat, Privy Council Office
I'm happy to take questions as much as we can—
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant
The committee's time is very valuable. Thank you.
We're going to begin with Mr. Anandasangaree.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Welcome to the panel this morning.
With respect to one particular appointment, that of Michael Sterlin, are you familiar with that appointment?
12:15 p.m.
Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Senior Personnel Secretariat, Privy Council Office
As much as I've read in the news clippings and from what your colleagues have explained.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON
My understanding is that the individual was appointed for a period of 10 years.
12:15 p.m.
Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Senior Personnel Secretariat, Privy Council Office
Yes. That's what I understand as well.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON
Could you maybe give a rational answer as to why that length of term would have been chosen for the appointment?
12:15 p.m.
Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Senior Personnel Secretariat, Privy Council Office
In terms of the process, ultimately it is ministers who make a recommendation to the Governor in Council regarding the length of a term. There are limits in some legislation. In the IRB there is a limit, as I understand it, of seven years for a full-term appointment. You can be reappointed in your position.
I wouldn't be able to speak to the specifics of that individual case, but ultimately it would be a decision made by the GIC on the recommendation of the minister.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON
You can't justify where the 10 years would come from, right?
12:20 p.m.
Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Senior Personnel Secretariat, Privy Council Office
It would really depend on a number of variables that would have been taken into consideration at the time of the appointment. It's quite important for these organizations to have continuity, and I do know as well that, in our circumstances, performance is also taken into account as a consideration. Again, I couldn't speak to that particular set of circumstances. It well predates me, and I wouldn't be able to talk about individual cases.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON
Can you indicate to us the process of appointment that existed previous to October 2015?
12:20 p.m.
Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Senior Personnel Secretariat, Privy Council Office
What I could tell you is that, previous to the government's new approach, it was really left to tribunals, in particular. I'll speak to those. They actually ran their own—
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON
Just to be very clear, can you home down on just the IRB for our purpose—
12:20 p.m.
Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Senior Personnel Secretariat, Privy Council Office
Sure.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON
—because I do think that, while I recognize you have a much broader role, we're specifically discussing the IRB, so could you narrow down to how the IRB decisions were made with respect to appointments?
12:20 p.m.
Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Senior Personnel Secretariat, Privy Council Office
To be honest, I wouldn't be able to speak to much of what was done because our role at that point in time would have really been around accepting the recommendations from the minister of who they wanted to appoint from the processes they would have undertaken. We would have conducted due diligence at that point in time, as I mentioned in my remarks. That would include doing security checks with our partner security colleagues within the Privy Council Office to make sure there was nothing in the individual's background that would be of concern. They would have also been required to adhere to legislation, as I pointed out, such as the Conflict of Interest Act, as well as—
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON
How about competency? Is that something that you would have....
12:20 p.m.
Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Senior Personnel Secretariat, Privy Council Office
At that point in time, as I said, in terms of assessing the competencies and running a full competitive process, that was all handled by the IRB before this new approach that the government has put into place.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON
Of the 70 appointments to the IRB since the new approach was adopted.... And this is not to the protection division; this is the appeals division, right?
12:20 p.m.
Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Senior Personnel Secretariat, Privy Council Office
Exactly. It's to the two appeal divisions, and it's the chair's discretion where those individuals will be placed.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON
Of the 70 new appointments, what is your sense of their competency relating to IRPA, as well as their experience in being adjudicators?
12:20 p.m.
Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Senior Personnel Secretariat, Privy Council Office
What I would say again is that there is quite a rigorous process. There's a notice of opportunity that's posted on our website. I would encourage you to have a look at that. It sets out exactly what the IRB requires. Again, we work in partnership with organizations to set the notices of opportunity. They would certainly outline the kind of criteria they want to see for the needs of the organization. All of that is clearly laid out.
We have what we call an ongoing intake model for the Immigration and Refugee Board, so that notice of opportunity is up there all the time. People can apply all the time for positions, full-time or part-time, as GIC-appointed members at the IRB. That is how they're basing the kind of intake they're looking for.
In terms of the assessment tools, in terms of the exam, I would say I did have a look at the exam. I wouldn't divulge all the details of what's in there, obviously, to protect the integrity, but I wouldn't be able to pass that exam. It is a very tough, demanding exam in terms of making sure individuals are able to do a very rigorous assessment of a complicated issue and write up a very solid adjudicative decision that is then marked by experts at the IRB.