Citizenship and Immigration Committee on April 17th, 2018

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

I want to clarify that we do not have a motion on the floor right now to adjourn debate, which you referred to.

We have a motion on the floor to resume committee business. You could, if someone wanted to, put a motion to end this debate. We could adjourn the debate on this motion, but I haven't received a motion like that.

I have a motion that we continue to committee business.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Mr. Chair, I believe I have the floor. I was interrupted by a point of order, and I would like to finish.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Ms. Kwan.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Related to committee business, you're right, it's not to adjourn debate; it is to move on to committee business. Related to committee business, I would like to put on the public record that it is important for this committee to look at the impact of the increase of asylum claims on the RCMP, the CBSA, the IRCC, the IRB, NGOs, and the provinces. These institutions provide settlement services in areas where these crossings are more frequent.

This study, in my view, should take place and should be comprised of no fewer than five meetings. The Minister of Immigration, Refugee, and Citizenship and IRCC officials should be invited to at least attend these meetings along with Public Safety Canada department officials.

This is of utmost importance given the situation—

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

I just need to clarify that this is a motion.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I am not moving a motion; I am simply saying that this is committee business that should be undertaken, seeing as this motion is to talk about moving on to committee business.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

I am going to stop this debate at this point, because we have a motion to move to committee business, which would allow you to bring committee business forward. You are actually now speaking in favour of moving toward committee business because you are actually doing committee business at this moment.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, the motion is to move into committee business in camera. It is significantly different from doing committee business in the public realm. There are opportunities through which—

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

We have many options to do public realm business.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

There are opportunities, Mr. Chair, through which committee members can raise notice of motion. One is that they can submit it in writing so that it can go to an in camera session and have that discussion there. Another way to do it is to do it in the public session so it is on the public record.

The way I have chosen to embark on my notices of motion, which are now not allowed to be tabled at this committee, is to do it in the public realm. The debate we're having on this motion is to say that we should move into committee business in camera. I disagree with that, and I would like the committee to look at this issue. There are other pressing issues that I would like to bring forward.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, on a point of order, there has been an extensive amount of conversation about this. The fact is that we are seeking to continue the agenda as it was published to us on the website.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

You're moving to debate now, so make sure you have a—

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

My assertion to you is that the filibustering going on.... Frankly, it is filibustering. There has been ample opportunity for all parties to bring matters to the public realm. In fact, they've done it routinely and have done it at the expense of very important agenda items we agreed to and we need to execute.

At this point I'm going to urge you, as the chair, Mr. Chair, to make a decision. At this point, it's not debate that's taking place. It is outside the realm of the debate on the substantive point, which is to continue the agenda as scheduled and published.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

All I can say right now is that I have a motion on the floor to move to committee business.

I recognize now Ms. Alleslev.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Mr. Chair, on a point of order, I was interrupted with a point of order in the middle of my debating the issue, and you have now chosen to go to another member. To me, that is not appropriate, Mr. Chair.

[Leona Alleslev, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

I believe that the committee chair said that was not the debate and that he was not allowing that to continue.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Is yours a point of order?

[Leona Alleslev, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

No.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Mr. Sorenson is coaching well. Is this a point of order? No, okay.

Ms. Kwan has the floor. However, I am fairly rigorous that it be on the debate. The debate is about moving to committee business and not about committee business.

If the committee wants to discuss committee business, I would advise that we move to committee business. Otherwise, we will not be able to continue. The rules are meant to protect all members. Individual members have their own goals and agendas and ideas, which is very appropriate, but the committee needs to make committee decisions.

Ms. Kwan, if you are on the topic of “do we move to discuss committee business”, that's appropriate.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I do not support this motion to move into committee business in camera. There is a distinct difference when you go in camera versus when you are actually engaging in committee business in the public realm. We are talking about notices of motion. For example, when you move a notice of motion that is in writing and submitted, all of that goes in camera. This distinction I'm trying to make is to move a notice of motion, which I have now been told I'm not allowed to do, so that we can engage in this discussion in the public realm so the public knows what it is this committee is deciding in camera about what studies to undertake. There is a distinct difference, Mr. Chair.

For the motion to proceed, I'm speaking against it. In my view, a lot of these issues ought not to be in camera. In my view, these issues should be in the daylight. Let the sun shine, and let us see what it is the committee members want to discuss.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Is the member making a motion? There is no rule that says business meetings are in camera. I'll just remind the committee of that. Business meetings may be in camera, and they may not be. An assumption is being made.

The second point is that the committee made a decision to not be in business in a general way. It was very much to honour the work of the analysts who presented a document of over 50 pages on a summary of evidence, which the committee requested them to do. You requested an extensive piece of work over the last two weeks, which they accomplished. This business meeting was requested by the committee so you could determine the next steps you wanted to take on this study with respect to the IRB's complaints and appointments processes. It was never meant to be a general business meeting. It was very specifically for the committee to honour the work, reflect on the work, and make a decision on whether you wanted further meetings on this particular topic. That was your decision, and I am trying to help you honour your decision as a committee. I believe it was unanimous. It wasn't one side or the other that requested the summary of evidence so we could analyze where we are on this study and make a good set of decisions. Just to clarify, that's why we're doing what we're doing. This moment was not meant to be a business meeting, nor was the business meeting we are supposedly engaging in shortly.

Continue, Ms. Kwan.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm simply going by what's on the agenda on the public record where it says “in camera committee business”. I am assuming that when we go to committee business, it is going to be in camera.

Perhaps I am mistaken, perhaps my assumption is wrong, or perhaps I misread the agenda. When Mr. Anandasangaree moved the motion, I assumed we were going to go in camera.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

I understand it's the committee's convention that when we have a business meeting we do it in camera. That is what we have done for the whole of this Parliament. However, that is always optional. If a member wanted to not be in camera, she or he may move that motion, which could be debated, defeated, or adopted.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

To continue with that, Mr. Chair, with respect to my assumption that the committee business would go in camera, I can wait for clarification. My point remains this. There are different ways that committee business can be dealt with and that notices of motions could be tabled. One of the ways to do it—and I and other committee members have done it before, without any hassle, by the way—is to have committee members just simply say that they would like to put it on the public record. It would take a couple of minutes at most. Then we would move on, and then we'd be done. For some reason, and I don't know why, today that is not being allowed. The member from the government side would like to shut down that opportunity. In my view—

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

I will clarify to you that I have received instructions from your whip that we are not receiving a notice of motion. We were told that you wanted to speak about a notice of motion. Now I'm also getting a notice of motion. I need clarity on whether I have a motion, a notice of motion, or someone speaking about a notice of motion.