Evidence of meeting #116 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was plan.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

2:30 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

Mr. Chair, I have one last point to make regarding this amendment.

Given the fact that the amendment has included two additional ministers for a meeting of two hours, I think having three ministers and three sets of departmental officials come would stretch our time and ability to adequately pursue our discussion. I would like to make a suggestion, not an amendment to the motion but a suggestion, to say that when we set this meeting, we extend that meeting to a three-hour meeting as opposed to a two-hour meeting so that we can accommodate three ministers and three sets of officials more adequately.

If there is a requirement for me to incorporate that as a subamendment to the motion, I'm happy to do so, but if not, if it's understood that this is what we would do, and committee members agree with that approach, then I'm happy to leave that out.

2:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant

I've just consulted with the clerk. He said that especially in the summer, when the House is not sitting and our time is not constricted by other committee meetings, we can use that. Depending on the number of witnesses requested, in general we'll be able to move that. I get the point. We'll still have at least two meetings, maybe three meetings, which could happen in one day. Or it could be....

So we'll have that. I would appreciate the flexibility. I get the point. I think it's the will of the committee to have a thorough and exhaustive, if not exhausting, meeting.

2:35 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

On that basis, I will support the amendment put forward by Mr. Anandasangaree, with the passage of subamendments I had also tabled.

2:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant

Mr. Paul-Hus.

July 16th, 2018 / 2:35 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to inject some French into this lovely meeting, so you'll have a chance to practise a bit.

Although I am not allowed to vote, I can recommend that my fellow members not support the amendment. I would underscore that our motion struck a very good balance, including neither the word “irregular” nor the word “illegal”. The government members are really playing up the rhetoric, having introduced the idea of irregular crossings into the motion. Clearly, they are trying to force the opposition to vote against it.

I don't know whether the members of the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration have been to Roxham Road, but as the public safety critic, I have been there twice. The first time, I went uninvited. My staff and I visited the access point on the American side of the border. In fact, I have a nice photo clearly showing that it is illegal to cross into Canada there. Members of the RCMP came up to me, and when I introduced myself, they told me that I couldn't cross the border there. When members of my staff started to advance, the police officers immediately asked them not to take another step because it was illegal.

A member of Parliament and political staffers—all Canadian—were clearly warned that they could not cross into Canada that way. Why, then, is the government playing word games?

Those following our proceedings today are wondering why so many of their tax dollars are being used to fund a never-ending discussion when what they really want is a plan.

Had the amendment sought to include the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness and the Minister of Families, Children and Social Development, we would have supported it, obviously. I would be delighted to attend another meeting in order to discuss the problem with Minister Goodale. What I take issue with, though, is the use of word games in order to force opposition members to vote against the motion. As we see it, there is absolutely no denying that crossing the border in this way is illegal. It is a matter of border sovereignty and control. The way in which we manage asylum seekers is another issue we have to deal with. Be that as it may, crossing the border in this way is illegal, and that is clearly indicated, no matter what the NDP members claim.

I ask that the committee hold meetings in order to address the issue and that this element be withdrawn to allow for a unanimous vote so that we can forge ahead. Millions of Canadians are wondering what exactly we are accomplishing here.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

2:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant

There is no one else on the list to speak to the amendment, so I'm going to call the question on the amendment to the motion. Would you like it read?

2:35 p.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

I'd like a recorded vote, Mr. Chair.

2:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant

A recorded vote has been requested. This is on the amendment, which has been amended already. The amendment to the motion is that we replace the words, “the adequacy of the federal government's response to the impact of increased asylum seekers crossing into Canada from the United States”, with the words, “the impact of and the government's response to the irregular border crossing at Canada's southern border, including on some provinces and municipalities”.

The second subamendment is that, after the words “the Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship”, we insert the words, “the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, and the Minister of Families, Children and Social Development”.

Those are the two amendments, which are part of the one amendment, as amended by subamendment.

(Amendment as amended agreed to: yeas 6; nays 3)

We are now returning to the original motion, now as amended.

I have Ms. Rempel on the list.

2:40 p.m.

Conservative

Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB

I'm fine, Mr. Chair.

2:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant

Mr. Paul-Hus, you're also on the list. Did you want to add anything?

2:40 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

No, thank you.

2:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant

Ms. Kwan.

2:40 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

No, I don't have anything more.

2:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant

Mr. Tilson.

2:40 p.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

I pass.

2:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant

Seeing no other speakers, I am going to call the question. I am assuming you'd like a recorded division as well.

2:40 p.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

Yes.

(Motion as amended agreed to: yeas 9; nays 0 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

2:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant

On one last point of business, I'd just like to note that we will be having at least two meetings prior to August 3. Those meetings will include a request to ministers to attend, as well as officials, as is our case, and witnesses. I'm going to ask that lists of witnesses be submitted to the clerk no later than 5 p.m. on Wednesday of this week so that we can continue as expeditiously as possible with the committee's desire to have two meetings.

Ms. Kwan.

2:40 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

Just for clarification, in terms of witnesses, how many witnesses' names should we be submitting? There is that allocation issue. I'm just wondering whether or not we're going to be following the allocation approach, or is there a different approach?

2:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant

My assumption, since I've been on this committee, has been that we'll follow the allocation approach. We will have 60% of the witnesses as recommended—please provide them in a ranked way—from the Liberal Party; 30% in a ranked way, please, from the Conservative Party; and 10% from the New Democratic Party. Regarding the number of witnesses, I just need a little bit of leeway. I will try to let you know as soon as I can. I'm going to try to work it. We have only one of our analysts with us today. I want to look at the lay of the land with our acting clerk as well, to try to figure out how many meetings we can get in. It's a little bit subject to when ministers are available. You've requested that three ministers attend in the summer. I need some flexibility to work around their schedules, and, I'm sure, we have a very strict time limit on this.

I suspect we'll get around 10 witnesses. There could be a few more or a few less, but around 10 witnesses will be what we'll have, given the fact that you've asked for a minimum of two meetings.

Ms. Rempel.

2:40 p.m.

Conservative

Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB

Given that three ministerial statements in a one-hour block wouldn't leave a lot of time for questions, I would ask that you have each of them at a separate meeting, and that this study would expand. Otherwise members won't be allowed questions and it will just be a government talking point festival.

2:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant

I will do my best to see how much time we can give. I know that your time is valuable. I am going to respect the motion that you just passed, and we will attempt to do our best to accommodate all your needs.

2:40 p.m.

Conservative

Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB

Actually, Mr. Chair, then I would move that the ministers appear not in one block, and that they would be separated so that we can—

2:40 p.m.

Liberal

Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, we've just passed this motion.

2:40 p.m.

Conservative

Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB

I am moving another motion.