Citizenship and Immigration Committee on July 24th, 2018

[Bill Blair]

I'm sorry? I missed your question.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Do you think it's reasonable to house in hotels 800 people who have illegally crossed the border into Canada?

[Bill Blair]

I think it's reasonable to make sure that people have adequate shelter as they work through the due process that is required in their review—

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Would you characterize a hotel as—

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Ms. Rempel, out of respect for the interpreters, it's very difficult for them to interpret in our two official languages if there's speaking over.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister Blair, would you characterize housing someone in a hotel for an indeterminate period as adequate housing?

[Bill Blair]

They are undergoing due process in the review of their claim for asylum. In that period, I think this is an appropriate way to ensure that they are adequately housed and in a safe and healthful environment. It is a contingency while they work through those processes—

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

I'll ask your officials, then—

[Bill Blair]

—and in my opinion, it is appropriate.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

I'll ask your officials, then, to table with the committee the total projected costs for housing people who have illegally crossed the border into Canada from the United States, and subsequently claimed asylum, for the next five years.

Yes?

[Bill Blair]

Yes. Noted.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Thank you.

Ms. Rempel for seven...or Ms. Kwan for seven minutes.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

That's a bit of a confusion.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thanks very much, Mr. Chair.

Congratulations, Minister Blair, and welcome to the committee.

Welcome, Minister Goodale and your officials.

The safe third country agreement came into force in 2004. As we heard, in 2001 approximately 45,000 asylum seekers came to Canada. I think that was the peak, actually. In 2000 that was the second highest, when our numbers were at approximately 38,000. The third-highest peak was in 2008, at around 37,000.

By way of comparison, could we look at before the safe third country agreement came into force and effect? Could you and perhaps your officials give us the background on how that was managed and how that compares with the situation we are faced with today, when the safe third country agreement is in place?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

In terms of the historical retrospective on management techniques prior to 2001 or 2002, I would have to defer to officials in the department—Mr. MacKinnon or perhaps Mr. MacDonald—to remind us of the history of that period of time.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you.

What I'm particularly interested in is this. Did we see asylum seekers coming through one or two particular border entry points, or did they actually come over at various different border entry points throughout the country?

[Paul MacKinnon, Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Chair, for that specific question we would have to look back in the historical record to see where people arrived.

What I can say, which perhaps is somewhat helpful, is that the major change is that before the agreement, obviously, people were not sent back to the U.S. through any kind of formal agreement. As we look at the last four or five years, we have the numbers of people who have been returned to the U.S. because of the STCA. If you look at 2013, for example, it was 436 people, and 458 in 2014. It bumped up a bit to 733 in 2016. In 2017 we had just over 1,900 individuals returned due to the STCA provisions.

In terms of the specific question about historical landings, we'd be happy to work with CBSA to find that information, Mr. Chair.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I would be particularly interested in that because I do think that the safe third country agreement has created challenges for us. I take the strong position that we should suspend that agreement, because, frankly, the United States, in my view, is not a safe country for asylum seekers; hence, there is a huge influx coming through, especially with the latest decision from the Trump administration, which has made a declaration that those who are seeking asylum as a result of gang violence will no longer be recognized in the United States. Surely under those conditions we cannot say that the United States is a safe country for asylum seekers.

In the past it was the case that without the safe third country agreement, people were crossing over and we had peak numbers similar to what we're faced with today. That really depends on the condition that's out there in the international community. Now some people say that we have a crisis, but really this needs management and we need a plan. I would say that we have not had a plan from the government. We've had a reactionary approach by the government, but not a plan. With the anticipation that these numbers will continue at this level, or perhaps even increase, would the government entertain the idea of addressing this issue by adjusting the levels plan numbers?

Under the protected persons category, where now in 2018 the number projected is 16,000, would both ministers support the government's looking at adjusting that number, to accommodate the influx, by doubling it?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Mr. Chair, in response to that, I would really have to defer to Minister Hussen. It is very specifically under his jurisdiction as Minister of Immigration to set the numbers and the appropriate categories from year to year. I note that he will be before the committee this afternoon and I think the most appropriate thing is to ask the minister.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I will certainly be asking the minister that question.

I wonder whether or not as a colleague of his who manages the border issue at CBSA, you, or now Mr. Blair, would support the government's doing that. For the government to come forward with a plan, you have to acknowledge the reality. To acknowledge the reality, you have to know that there are these numbers that are fluctuating, and to properly address it you need to incorporate that into your levels plan. By incorporating that into the levels plan, you can then prepare by budgeting both with the CBSA and with RCMP, as well as with Immigration and the measures that need to be taken from that point of view.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Again, those are issues that are very squarely within Minister Hussen's responsibility.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I'm going to ask this question too, because the other problem that is challenging for your ministry is the processing of these cases. Once they have come through and you have gone through all the screening, then they need to be processed accordingly to determine whether or not they have a valid refugee claim, which has to be done through the IRB. Right now the IRB is backlogged. It is not resourced properly and has not been for a long time. Even though in 2018 there was some injection of dollars into its budget, it is still deficient. Is that something you would argue for at the cabinet table, to say that additional dollars and resources need to be put forward to the IRB so it can process the claims expeditiously and so that it doesn't create the problems you're faced with?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Ms. Kwan, obviously I don't speculate about what any minister may or may not say at the cabinet table, but I can tell you that issues in relation to resourcing have clearly been discussed, because budget 2018 provided a specific allocation for all of the agencies involved—CBSA, RCMP, CSIS, as well as the IRB—and there was money explicitly allocated to provide incremental resources to the IRB.