Evidence of meeting #117 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was border.
A video is available from Parliament.
11:40 a.m.
Representative in Canada, Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees
It's across the board, but we don't see any differences in terms of the profile, in terms of the—
11:40 a.m.
Conservative
11:40 a.m.
Representative in Canada, Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees
The $20,000 average income is from the census, which was released by Stats Canada in November last year.
11:40 a.m.
Conservative
11:40 a.m.
Representative in Canada, Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees
I think the census was carried out in 2016.
11:40 a.m.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
Okay, so it wouldn't necessarily have captured data from 2017.
11:40 a.m.
Representative in Canada, Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees
No, but anecdotal information from two partners in Quebec indicates that of the clients, if you wish, they have supported through job fairs, for example, 50% of them have been able to find jobs. With some arriving with their own resources, they think that up to 60% of them will be economically self-reliant on the spot. I mean—
11:40 a.m.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
Was there any correlation with the likelihood of asylum claims being accepted within that cohort?
11:40 a.m.
Representative in Canada, Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees
In terms of their economic self-reliance? No. I don't know.
11:40 a.m.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
I just ask because I'm wondering if perhaps there is a better way for people who are seeking to enter the country, who might not have valid claims, to have a permanent path to residency. It's something we don't talk about in this committee, but perhaps we should.
In terms of the data you received, was there any tracking of language acquisition by those in the cohort that have entered via Roxham Road starting in 2017?
11:40 a.m.
Representative in Canada, Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees
It varies a lot according to nationality. You can imagine that Haitians will have a higher chance of speaking French. Nigerians will have a higher chance of speaking English than, let's say, Syrians or Somalis.
11:40 a.m.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
Was there any data on the adequacy or level of support being provided for language acquisition?
11:40 a.m.
Representative in Canada, Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees
What do you mean?
11:40 a.m.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
Were there enough spots, let's say in Quebec, to train people in language skills?
11:40 a.m.
Representative in Canada, Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees
I was recently with the MIDI, the Quebec ministry of immigration. They were indicating that they have put in place contingency plans and have not reached their higher level. For example, with regard to shelters, they indicated clearly that those are only 50% full.
11:40 a.m.
Liberal
11:40 a.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Thank you to our witnesses.
Professor Liew, I'd like to start with you. In your presentation you made it very clear that Canada should suspend the safe third country agreement, indicating that what's going on in the United States is not safe for asylum seekers. You cited cases and examples of people who came through the official ports of entry and were turned back, and the grave situations they were in.
The United States currently has a policy in place that rejects asylum seekers who claim asylum on the basis of gang and domestic violence. From your knowledge, would you say that those are valid reasons to say that the United States is not a safe country for asylum seekers?
11:45 a.m.
Associate Professor and Refugee Lawyer, Faculty of Law, Common Law Section, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
I think it's a great point to make that there is a difference between selecting people to be resettled into a country to find safe haven there, i.e., in the United States, versus people who have come to the United States to make an asylum claim within the United States. For those people in the second category, those going through the refugee determination process within the United States, they are at risk. The reason is the policies you've named—for example, those who will be denied on the spot simply because their claim is related to gang violence or gender-based persecution. Those people will not be provided the same kind of protection they would expect to be provided in Canada.
I can give you a very real example. There's a woman named Magdalena, who, with her six-year-old daughter Maria, fled Guatemala to escape her abusive husband. On arrival in the U.S., Magdalena was separated from her daughter and criminally prosecuted for illegal entry. Her daughter was taken to a facility for unaccompanied minors. After five months in detention, Magdalena was deported back to Guatemala, where she is hiding from her abuser. Her daughter has since been released to a family member in the United States and is pursuing her refugee claim alone. I think this example exemplifies how the United States is not living up to its international obligations with regard to refugee protection, how the refugee determination system is not doing its job there, and that Canada should not turn a blind eye to this.
11:45 a.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Thank you.
I am going to turn to Jean-Nicolas. Thank you for your presentation. Given what we just heard from Professor Liew, would you agree that it is not safe for those asylum seekers to seek asylum in the United States?
11:45 a.m.
Representative in Canada, Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees
I will give an example that will, I hope—
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NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Sorry, I just want an answer to my question. Is it safe for those individuals?
11:45 a.m.
Representative in Canada, Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees
There is recourse before the court on the cases of domestic violence that have been mentioned. I would like to point out as well that in Canada not all persons who are fleeing gang violence are recognized in the refugee definition, but are protected under section 67.
11:45 a.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
I am going to ask a very clear question. If Canada put in a policy saying that we would reject all asylum seekers if they are seeking asylum here because they are fleeing domestic violence or gang violence, would that not make Canada not very safe for those people who are seeking asylum? You're nodding to that question.
In the United States, that is the blanket policy they have in place. It is not an evaluation of individual cases on whether or not those facts are founded, but rather a blanket policy. When you have a blanket policy like that for individuals who are there to make an inland asylum claim in the United States, is it safe for them?
11:45 a.m.
Representative in Canada, Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees
Decisions are being challenged in court, and there will be a final decision on whether an asylum seeker in the U.S. can make a claim based on their fleeing domestic violence or a criminal gang. In Canada, as well, we are looking at the issues of how people are being recognized as refugees when they flee criminal gangs, and a number of them are recognized in section 67 under other humanitarian considerations and not with a link to the refugee definition.
11:45 a.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
At the moment, there are 463 parents of migrant children, the more than 2,000 children who were ripped away from their parents, who are no longer present in the United States. This means that those children are rendered orphans at the moment in the United States. The United States has a blanket policy that rejects asylum seekers who show up at the border to seek asylum if they are faced with gang violence or domestic violence. This is the reality of what's happening on the ground in the United States. I think anyone would be hard-pressed to say that the United States is a safe country for those asylum seekers. I hope we can agree that it isn't.
Domestic violence is a common cause of persecution for female refugee claimants. Between January 2013 and September 2017, Nigeria was the top country for people seeking asylum in Canada for that reason. Haiti was second, and Afghanistan was third. At least half of them were found to have a valid claim here in Canada. That is the reality we have in terms of our stats.
The situation in the United States is such that I would argue it is not a safe country. The UNHCR does resettle people there, but that's different. Resettlement is something they accept, versus people who show up at their border. I hope that UNHCR will recognize that difference.
Mr. Edelmann, you raised the issue of safe third country. Can you confirm for me that it is also your opinion, given your expertise in this field, that the safe third country agreement should be suspended?
