Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Oct. 4th, 2018

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

You have probably visited many of these refugee camps. One thing we've heard from people, and from the other speakers as well, is that religious minority groups particularly have trouble registering, or are hesitant to register, as UNHCR refugees. We've also heard before in testimony from refugees that they feel very unsafe in certain refugee camps. They feel even more at risk within a refugee camp where they are the minority than they did prior to reaching it.

Do you see the UN being more tactful or being better equipped to handle the refugee camps where they administer the refugee camps? That's an alarming situation to know that when people take refuge.... We already know that the camps aren't great places to live or be in, but to know that they are victims of assault or sexual assault while they're in a refugee camp is even more worrisome. Have you seen any best practices or ways in which the UN should do better?

[Christian Friis Bach]

This is, of course, where we need a very forceful protection response inside the camps. That is one of the issues we engage heavily in, ensuring that you have protection and monitoring by people who are consistently present in the camps, making sure that minorities or vulnerable groups, or women and girls who are faced with sexual abuse, can receive the protection and the proper treatment and support they may need.

I do agree that a camp solution is definitely not an ideal solution. That's also why we need to work on out-of-camp solutions for refugees. More and more countries under the CRRF and the global compact on refugees luckily engage in non-camp solutions and much more durable solutions, where refugees can get access to jobs, to land, and to education and health services. They can therefore engage in a community where they will be better protected.

I agree that this is a severe problem. I visited just before the summer the Moria camp on Lesbos. In Europe, the UNHCR did a study on women and girls who faced sexual abuse passing through Greece, and one quarter of them faced these violations inside the camps in the hot spots in Greece. Here you have women and girls struggling to cross the Mediterranean or the Iberian Sea on a difficult journey, receiving what they believe to be safety in Europe, and ending up in a camp where they face violations. It is not acceptable. It defeats all our principles in terms of human rights and human dignity. We definitely need to scale up our protection response inside the camps.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Thank you.

My next question would be for Mr. Shamdeen.

Mr. Shamdeen, first of all, I'd like to comment on the great work that was and is being done by Nadia's Initiative and the focus on the advocacy of women. We have heard from witnesses and from our own members, who have visited some refugee camps, that women are more vulnerable to violence in camps—and I just mentioned that earlier—due to a variety of reasons, but one of the ones that strikes me is just a lack of lighting or a lack of safe passage for going to the bathroom or where they have to relieve themselves. Is there anything, other than giving more money, that we could do to make that better? Particularly, you might be more aware of accounts where Yazidi minority women might be staying.

[Abid Shamdeen]

Thank you.

To your earlier question, for Yazidis, the real disadvantage in being an IDP is that they are not even qualified to register with UN agencies because they are considered displaced, not refugees, so they don't qualify. Even if they want to register, they are not able to do that.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Those are the ones in northern Iraq, but the ones in Turkey or Greece are UNHCR refugees, if I understand.

[Abid Shamdeen]

That is correct, but the majority of Yazidis are in IDP camps in Iraq. As I mentioned, about 350,000 Yazidis are in IDP camps. Only about 6,000 Yazidis are in Turkey, Greece, Lebanon and Jordan, as refugees.

On your other question, especially for the Yazidi survivors—the women who survived ISIS captivity, some of whom were in captivity for over two years and survived—now, they have to go back and live in a tent, in that camp where they don't feel safe and where they faced brutal acts by ISIS. It is also hard for them to reintegrate in such an environment, as they are not able to live in a proper home or have access to proper sanitation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

I'm afraid I need you to end there.

Go ahead, Mr. Maguire.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to the witnesses for their testimony as well.

Mr. Shamdeen, I'd just like to throw a couple of quick questions out and get some response on the challenges that you see facing the Yazidis. What should we be doing to help? We've brought in 1,200 refugees here. Have you heard anything back from the communities here in Canada, as to our resettlement processes?

[Abid Shamdeen]

As I mentioned, I believe that only about 700, at most, of the 1,200 were resettled in Canada, so the number that was promised was not achieved. The main thing is to help resettle the rest of the Yazidis that Canada promised to resettle, at least the survivors.

The other thing is that the area where the Yazidis are is a disputed area, so both the KRG and the Iraqi government fight over that area, and access to that area is very limited right now. For UN agencies and NGOs to work there, it is not easy.

I sent my comments to the committee earlier about the possibility of Canada doing specific projects in Sinjar, so for example, to help to rebuild the only hospital that was in the area, directly or through a contractor or a specific NGO, rather than contributing to the UN fund and asking the UN, because it doesn't get there.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Okay, thanks. That is helpful.

Obviously, they are being prevented from returning to their ancestral lands in northern Iraq. Do you think there should be any kind of international monitoring of the ability for ethnic minorities to return to their homelands?

[Abid Shamdeen]

I believe so, because as you can see, all eyes are on Mosul right now. For example, all NGOs are heading there, yet Yazidis remain in these camps. They are not able to register with the UN agencies to emigrate. They're not able to return home because the conditions are not there. The security is not there. About 70,000 Yazidis have returned to Sinjar. I was there just recently. To get from Dohuk, where the IDP camps are, it takes you about six to seven hours. You have to go through eight checkpoints. There are many militia groups controlling these areas including the PMU, the PKK, and the Kurdish militias. There is no specific control of the Iraqi government over that area.

The reconstruction is not done. About 49 mass graves containing the remains of Yazidis were discovered. Those mass graves are not protected. They're not examined. There is a UN team that is supposedly going to Iraq and working on the mass graves, collecting the evidence and investigating ISIS crimes. I met with the head of the team in New York last week, Mr. Karim Khan, who is fighting very hard to go and get the work done but is not able to find the funding support from the UN or from the international community.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Thank you.

Obviously, we know that the IDPs aren't able to follow under the resettlement processes of the UNHCR.

Do you think it's fair, considering the issues that the Yazidis and, I believe, as Mr. Shadarevian indicated, other groups besides the Yazidis in many of those other areas have? Is that fair? Should we be looking at other alternatives besides resettlement through the UNHCR?

[Abid Shamdeen]

In my opinion, because the minorities...especially the Yazidis, who, as we all know, suffered the most under ISIS. They continue to do so because there are, as I said, over 1,300 in captivity, mostly women and children. I believe when Canada resettles a certain number of refugees a year—and this is something I've discussed with the U.S. government as well—they should have a percentage, for example, for Yazidis, a certain percentage for minorities from Iraq. That is the only way it will be a fair process, because Yazidis don't have the resources to immigrate to countries and to be able to register with the UNHCR. They don't qualify in Iraq.

I believe that giving them a percentage would be fair.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

I have one last question here for Mr. Bach as well.

Your organization, the Danish Refugee Council, supports IDPs as well. You have dealt with quite a few refugees. How quickly can you relocate them?

With regard to resettling processes, you've done a lot of these. I'm wondering if you feel you do a better job, as far as getting the resettlement in place quickly goes, than do groups maybe as wieldy and large as the UNHCR. It's not that they aren't doing a good job, but I'm wondering who could put the process in place and get the resettlement going more quickly.

[Christian Friis Bach]

That is a good question.

We work very closely with the UNHCR, but we have assisted Canada, actually, with the resettlement of Lebanese refugees and Syrian refugees. In Lebanon we assisted. We do believe in a good partnership. We do believe we can definitely significantly speed up these processes.

I'm not an expert on the resettlement and asylum procedures and how they play together. My concern right now is the diminishing engagement in the resettlement process as such. Right at the moment we are negotiating the global compact, through which host countries and communities emphasize a need for financing and resettlement as part of a comprehensive solution. We see resettlement schemes going down.

I'm not proud to say that Denmark is the only country to go all the way down to zero in its resettlement program. Most other countries, especially, of course, the U.S., have cut their resettlement programs. This is exactly the wrong way to go.

Not only speeding it up but also increasing the numbers is crucial to creating a common solution under the global compact on refugees.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Thank you, Mr. Maguire.

Ms. Kwan.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I thank all the witnesses for their presentations today.

First, I'd like to ask Ms. Baum a question.

In your presentation, you talked about the current situation in the United States and the impact of the safe third country agreement. Other panellists had also made presentations to suggest that Canada should suspend the safe third country agreement that makes people cross over irregularly. Risking life and limb is not a good idea.

Can you offer your opinion about that and whether Canada should in fact suspend the safe third country agreement?

[Rosa Baum]

Conditions in the United States right now do not lead to safe conditions for refugees or asylum seekers. Their rights are not being protected through due process and through specific mechanisms that are internationally accepted in order to see if they do have that fear of returning. They're not being provided with the interviews. They're not going through legal channels. This really does defeat the most important aspect of this agreement, which recognizes a safeguarding that should be happening in the United States but unfortunately, with this buildup of different policies over quite some time now, is no longer happening.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

To that question, should Canada suspend the safe third country agreement?

[Rosa Baum]

Yes.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thanks very much.

To the Yazidi situation, I'm a little alarmed, actually, to hear that the resettlement number is around 700, not the 1,200 as committed. I know the deadline has been missed. It was missed some time ago. That number is not what I had anticipated.

That said, I guess the question really is this: What can Canada do, then, firstly, to ensure that we meet this target of 1,200 persons?

Secondly, in fact, just last week I was in Vancouver where a group of people, the Yazidi women's project, came together to support Yazidi women on both the resettlement side, once they land in Canada, but also to call on the government to do more with respect to that. With the Yazidi situation, of course, what we're faced with is a genocide. That's the backdrop of the situation.

I wonder if the folks on the panel could provide concrete examples or suggestions as to what Canada can do and should do.

[Abid Shamdeen]

As I mentioned, of the 1,200, the number we were provided was that 724 Yazidis were taken through that program. I believe the first step is to follow up with the Minister of Immigration to make sure they take the rest of the survivors.

The other—

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Sorry. Can I just interrupt you? When you say, “take the rest of the survivors”, how many are you suggesting?

[Abid Shamdeen]

As I said, out of 1,200, they took about 700. I hope that the remainder of that number, the 500, will be resettled.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Got it.