Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 19th, 2016

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

As far as spelling bees are concerned, I remember that in school I used to hate spelling bees, and my staff still correct me for spelling, so congratulations on your progress. I wish you all the best in your career.

[Hayat Said]

Thank you.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

I'd like to ask a question, Mr. Chairman, to all the witnesses.

There have been examples of champions in the community, such as, for example, employers who are providing language training on the job or who have stepped up in terms of housing, or employment, or other things, and who have demonstrated extraordinary dedication to this effort. If you know of any, I wonder if you could tell the committee about any examples you can share about these individuals and what they have done.

[Zena Al Hamdan, Programs Manager, Arab Community Centre of Toronto]

We do have a couple of examples that touch on both issues. We have had overwhelming support from private sector employers. We had employers such as FreshCo. coming to our recent job fair and basically hiring on the spot. They take into consideration the fact that the refugees have virtually no English language skills, and they're willing work with settlement organizations in terms of supporting their new employees, fitting them in within the workplace culture, and that sort of thing. On the other hand, they're looking to settlement organizations for cultural interpretation for their employees, in order to absorb the new refugees that are coming in.

We also had landlords who came into our centre—that was probably in mid-November to December—saying they were willing to work with the sponsorship groups in terms of housing larger families in townhouse units. Also, the heads of household were employed within construction companies that are owned by the same company.

We have had overwhelming support, even from small shops. They would come in and say, “I'm looking for so-and-so. I'm willing to train.” It's not one example or one sector. It's everybody coming and offering support.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Thank you.

I'd like to ask a question to all of you, again about the so-called 13th month. As you know, this is the first month after the 12-month period in which the federal government provision of financial support to either the federal government or the private sponsors comes to an end. In some cases, this may also include the end of reduced rent that had been negotiated as part of the initial settlement of housing arrangements. It includes all kinds of other things.

Do you have any concerns about this period of time? We'll call it the 13th month. Do you have any concerns about when this funding stops, namely one year after the refugees have been provided with financial assistance.?

Anyone, Mr. Chan perhaps, would you care to answer?

[Sherman Chan]

Yes, I do have concern in terms of how we can strategize and make a better coordination effort within Canada, and of course with local communities, to have the infrastructure in place.

When I say “infrastructure in place”, right now, through IRCC, we're welcoming community initiatives that have been engaging with some of the employers or the city people to look at housing and the coordination of services. That's one thing that we are starting to look at.

Yes, materially they may be off the rent program, and if they are not really able to succeed, it means that they may be on income assistance. The good thing is that we know in the longer run, many refugees succeed well. Statistics Canada even looks at children of refugee families, and they do quite well in the long run, about five years or so.

Yes, we really want to address it and I don't really have any concrete recommendations or suggestions right now. In June, CCR will have a meeting in Saskatoon to look at the challenges and at some of the ways we can work together to address that 13th month phenomenon.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

The 12 months are going to end before we know it, and if you have any suggestions from your meetings or consultations, even though the committee probably will have finished its study of the Syrian settlement issue, that doesn't stop you from writing a letter to the chairman and offering suggestions. We would appreciate that.

Mr. Chan, I have another question to you. You mentioned the issue of the dental care that is being provided to refugees. I can attest that I've had a number of complaints, particularly from seniors in my community, and others who do not have dental care. They don't have insurance. They have limited funding. There's a certain resentment from a certain percentage of the population. I have no idea how big it is, but the very fact that I've been asked questions.... Could you comment on that?

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Thirty seconds please, Mr. Chan.

[Sherman Chan]

From an individual perspective, I would say it's from the refugee, if they suffer from needing dental care, I think it's always important they have that opportunity to have a tooth extracted, or have an X-ray. We're not talking about major care. It is something that helps many refugees, if they are looking for a job and they don't have healthy teeth, or sometimes even for their mental health, when people feel shy or don't feel comfortable going out. I think that is helping them to become more confident.

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Thank you, Mr. Chan.

Ms. Kwan, you have seven minutes, please.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses and presenters.

I have three or four areas I'd like to explore.

On the question around financial security, there's no question there's going to be a crunch in the 13th month when the sponsorship ends. In the meantime, even as it stands now, many of the refugees I've met raise the issue of the lack of financial support. On income assistance, it's hard for people to make ends meet. Many people run out of money before the month is over, and they're relying on food banks.

Ms. Bukhari, could I have you give us some quick comments on your experience with the people you have encountered with respect to that aspect of it.

I'm going to ask all these questions so people can start thinking about them.

Refugees are affected by the transportation loan they have to repay. Do you have any experiences that you can share with us in terms of the pressures that are put on them related to that? On the question around language training, there's a huge wait-list for people trying to get into language training. As indicated, they seem to be at a lower literacy level than anticipated. How long is the wait-list, and what are the issues related to the child care provisions, so that the women get access to the language training program as well and they're not faced with isolation.

In the presentation from ACCT, there's a note around domestic violence, and that reports have been coming back with respect to women clients disclosing incidents of domestic violence within two to three weeks of arrival. That is hugely concerning. What action is being taken and what action needs to be taken to ensure the supports are there for the women in this difficult time?

I'm going to open the floor for Ms. Bukhari and then Mr. Chan.

[Huda Bukhari]

In regard to financial security and food, it's a different issue for the two groups, within the GARs, the government-assisted refugees, and within the PSRs or privately sponsored refugees. The PSR groups have been stepping up in adding some more money to their particular groups so they can buy food. We have had a partnership with some of the Arab stores, and they have been distributing food to many of the clients that access our services.

We've also made connections with the faith groups and mosques in the area, who have been distributing food to clients upon need. That has been going on.

Money is not enough. Money is never enough. We've been trying to hold information sessions for the clients who are coming into our offices in regard to budgeting and how to budget. For example, we had a client who came in and said, “Do you realize that it costs over $4 to buy milk? I'm not going to buy milk. It's too expensive. Do you realize how much four dollars is, and how far four dollars can go back in Jordan?”

We were trying to give information sessions in regard to budgeting and how far money can go here.

As to the transportation loans, what has been happening is that the transportation loans have been taken away from the Syrians who have been coming in from December to March.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

All the refugees you're dealing with are people who have come after November 4. Those who came before November 4 would not have had a transportation loan.

[Huda Bukhari]

Yes.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

We'll leave that. We'll move on to the next issue.

[Huda Bukhari]

Language training is an issue. It's one of the great issues. The way that many of our clients have been accessing it, especially the females who've been trying to access it because of child care, is that they split the time in regard to the particular school they go to. They will go in the morning, leave their spouse at home with the child, and then the husband will go to classes in the afternoon when the wife comes back. Child care is an issue.

Access to child care is an issue. This is an area that we really need to be able to address. There have been enormous wait-lists. In the LINC classes and the ESL classes they say they're understaffed and don't have enough spaces. That has been an issue. One way of working through it is for the husband and wife to split the time when they go. We have also started conversation circles at the office over the weekends. The wives and/or the females within the household can come in and attend conversation circles in English, to help until they get child care opportunities available within the schools. I don't know how long the wait-lists are. It depends on each school. I really have no idea how long those are, but those are things that need to be worked on.

Domestic violence: this is something that really surprised us at the centre. We get calls from doctors. We get calls from the hospitals. We get calls from maybe other service providers. As an example, a husband came in and told us that he had gone home, realized his wife and two children were missing from the apartment, and assumed that his wife had taken the children to school. He waited until the end of the day for his family to come back. When the family didn't come back by 8 p.m., he went to the police station, he said. Once he got to the police station, with a friend who was interpreting for him, to make the missing persons report, he was apprehended and put in jail. He came out 10 days later to tell us the story. Apparently his wife had filed a domestic violence report against him.

This is what we're beginning to see. A lot of females are coming to us. Through the initial intake and assessment at our office, because we have Syrian counsellors there, one a psychiatrist, they've been able to disclose domestic violence. There's an increase.

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Thank you, Ms. Bukhari. These are very important questions. Perhaps you can submit written answers. If you'd like to flesh out some of your answers from your community centre as well, please submit them in written form. The chair will make sure they're distributed to all the committee members.

It is now Mr. Chen's opportunity to ask questions.

You have seven minutes, please, Mr. Chen.

[Shaun Chen, Liberal, Scarborough North, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses, particularly to Ms. Said for telling us her story.

I've heard a number of witnesses today talk about young people. I know that in the public discourse there's been a lot about access to housing and employment, but I haven't heard too much around education, and particularly around supporting young people. I know from working in the community that so much of the success of this project will be measured in the outcomes of the youth, whether they are able to attain education and have good outcomes moving forward, which won't be apparent for years to come. A number of you have spoken of the importance of supporting children and youth.

I know that in Ontario there used to be school community workers within the public school system. Those were cut by the previous provincial Conservative government and have not been reinstated since. These workers were specifically tasked with reaching out to diverse communities to make sure they were integrated. We know how important it is to involve parents in the education of their children.

Can you talk about some of the challenges with respect to educational attainment in terms of English language learning, in terms of settlement within the context of families and education, and in terms of their involvement and how important that is? What are some of the challenges and how can those challenge be addressed?

[Zena Al Hamdan]

The problems and challenges that we see are the different school systems that the parents are coming from. There isn't much involvement of parents in their children's education. Once the child goes to school, it is the teacher's responsibility. The concept of being involved in the child's life is non-existent. Most of the families we see are illiterate in their own language.

The school system is very intimidating and overwhelming. The concept of being different.... They come from a homogenous community. They are not really very familiar with the fact that there are diversities and there is potential for bullying, isolation, and things like that.

The other important factor is that many of these newcomer refugees have been out of school for two or three years. We have seen young children who have never actually seen a formal school. They don't understand the school system, so this is one of the biggest challenges.

The school boards have been very co-operative in the GTA, the greater Toronto area, in reaching out to settlement organizations and to us, specifically. We have worked with the Peel District School Board and the Toronto District School Board in the ESL context and in the special education context.

There has been a lot of communication, but a lot of work has to trickle down from the board itself to the people on the ground, to cross-collaborate with settlement organizations and organizations that actually know the community that is coming in and how to coach them. SWIS workers play a big role in connecting with settlement organizations, but there is also a lot of work to be done on the part of settlement organizations in terms of educating parents on how to be involved in their children's school.

One more thing I would like to say is that we are seeing a very new demographic that we haven't seen before, the very young parents. We would see clients who fit under the category of youth. They are under 24, but they are actually parents of two or three children at that time.

That is a bigger challenge, because the age category.... They are considered youth, but the services are mainly targeted at 14 to 18, and 18 to 24 is sort of missed in the midst of services. In this age category, mostly what we are seeing are parents. These parents will need extra support as newcomers, as parents, and as youth, and potentially as part of the workforce.

[Shaun Chen, Liberal, Scarborough North, ON]

Thank you.

[Dr. Rachel Gouin]

I would like to add to that. Statistics Canada's study that Mr. Chen mentioned on educational and labour market outcomes illustrated that children mostly do well when they are younger, but when they arrive as teenagers they struggle, especially when their parents don't have a good grasp of the official languages.

There is a need for extra support for youth. That support can come through schools—I am happy to hear that there are things happening there—but after-school programs are renowned for their ability to support young people and give them that additional leg up. Those are important, whether they happen at Boys and Girls Clubs or in other community programs. Those spaces where young people can get the additional support, and even career counselling and mentoring, are important.

[Shaun Chen, Liberal, Scarborough North, ON]

Ms. Bukhari, you talked about access to government services and the one-hour drive, for example, just to get to a local office.

Ms. Gouin, you mentioned the national youth advancement program, and how you have set up nine locations. Do you feel there is a need...? As refugees are being settled throughout the country, what are the challenges that you are facing as an organization to ensure that those types of programs are having a far enough reach to get to those settled in more remote areas?

[Dr. Rachel Gouin]

We are hearing from our clubs that more and more of their population is made up of newcomer youth. The Moncton Boys and Girls Club has seen its newcomer.... The members are largely newcomer youth now, and they are busing them in from different communities to the main location.

We have small clubs and large clubs, and we are able, through this program, to fund the small ones in smaller communities. Well, Moncton is not that small, but we also have LaSalle, Winnipeg, Edmonton, Calgary, and St. John's—we have a new program that has started there.

I am not sure I am answering your question, but I think it is possible to support small community organizations to give that extra support. It doesn't replace the need for settlement. We are not teaching young people English. We are an environment and a community where people can practice or where they can feel a sense of belonging. It is kind of an additional supplement, but it doesn't replace the need for English language or settlement services in regions.

[Shaun Chen, Liberal, Scarborough North, ON]

Finally, Ms. Said—