Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Feb. 27th, 2019

[Salma Zahid, Scarborough Centre, Lib.]

Thank you, Chair.

Thanks to all the witnesses for joining us today, and thanks for all you have said about the labour shortages in your respective industries.

Maybe all of you can give your comments on my first question. I would like to draw your attention to a survey of 1,000 Canadian businesses that was conducted by the Business Development Bank of Canada last year. It found that 43% of respondents said that, to address current labour shortages, they would hire less qualified candidates; 40% would hire younger candidates, and more than 30% said they would raise salaries or bring back retirees. However, only 18% said they would hire immigrants, and 57% said they disagreed with that approach.

Have you observed this reluctance to consider hiring qualified immigrants in your industries? Do you have any thoughts as to why that may be?

We can start with Mr. Lewis.

[Mark Lewis]

I can say categorically that in the construction industry in Ontario I have never come across a reluctance by any employer to hire immigrants. The industry in which I'm privileged to work is an industry that is now, and by tradition has largely been, immigrants of all sorts of different ethnic groups. I'm sure we could do a better job of integrating some groups from different parts of the world, but there is no reluctance, I think, in the construction industry to hire immigrants.

They just want workers who will get the job done for them.

[Salma Zahid]

Would you like add to that?

[Santiago Escobar]

Yes, thank you.

I would like to share one experience of something that a UFCW local in Manitoba was able to implement in their collective agreement at a Maple Leaf meat plant. After one year of working at this plant, migrant workers would be sponsored by the employer to apply for permanent residency. So far, 3,000 workers have been able to come through this program. They have been able to bring their families to Canada. It's been a great experience for the economy, the industry, the communities and, of course, for their families.

Regarding the agriculture sector, I have seen quite the opposite. Last year, I attended many consultations regarding the agricultural temporary foreign worker program.

The industry is now suggesting that these workers should have a path to get PR—the same as, for instance, an Ontario nominee program, which is now giving that possibility to lower-skill workers.

[Salma Zahid]

Ms. Proulx, would you like to add something to that?

[Véronique Proulx]

Yes. I would say that in Quebec manufacturers are looking for more foreign workers. They're actually asking the government to bring in more immigrants to answer the labour shortage, and they're being very creative in order to attract immigrants, women and young people. I think the situation has evolved a lot. It's not a challenge for these employers to integrate foreign workers.

[Salma Zahid]

We know that the Canadian fertility rate is declining. We are an aging country. According to Statistics Canada, women are having children at an older age. The average age of mothers at childbirth was 30.8 years in 2016. The average age for first birth has risen to 29.2 years, and women are having fewer children. As of 2016, the fertility rate had dropped to 1.4 children per woman.

Given these demographic trends, can we meet current and projected future labour demands through our Canadian-born population alone?

Mr. Escobar, you can start.

[Santiago Escobar]

You just said it. I don't think so. This is why it's so important that the federal government implement a program or update the current program. We claim that if workers are able to come to Canada, and, as already said during this consultation, if they are able to apply to get permanent residency and to get established here, that would help to address this issue.

[Salma Zahid]

Mr. Lewis.

[Mark Lewis]

No, we can't. In our specific industry, with the carpenters and other skilled trades, we are going to need immigrants. The problem is magnified, because a lot of the places we traditionally got our skilled trades from—parts of Europe and so forth—are experiencing exactly the same demographic problem as Canada. It's a magnified problem. It's building on itself.

[Salma Zahid]

Yes.

Ms. Proulx.

[Véronique Proulx]

The answer is no. We clearly can't, and this is why we need the temporary worker program to be adapted and to be more flexible in order to be able to bring in more people who answer the labour market's needs.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

You have one and a half minutes.

[Salma Zahid]

What impacts do labour shortages have on individual companies, our economy and productivity in general? How would an aging population that would be shrinking without immigration impact the quality of life to which most Canadians have become accustomed?

Mr. Lewis.

[Mark Lewis]

Well, the impact in my particular industry is that our employers can't take jobs on. This means that it takes longer to get construction projects built, particularly infrastructure projects, or it costs more. That has an impact on all Canadians. There are certain projects that just have to get done. If you're refurbishing a nuclear power station, as we are doing now in Ontario, you can't stop halfway through. The costs go up.

All I can say about construction is that for everything you do—everything we all do—you rely on construction. You might not know it, but it's all inside buildings. It's going to be in the nursing homes where elderly Canadians will spend their retirement years, and in the hospitals where they have to go. If we don't build, the quality of life will be worse.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Thank you.

We need to end there.

Mr. Tilson, go ahead.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

I have a brief question, Mr. Chairman, and then Mr. Maguire will continue.

Mr. Lewis, several years ago there was a boom in Alberta. The oil and gas industry was doing well, and people were moving to Alberta. They needed houses and other places to live. The problem was that there was an inadequate resource of carpenters, electricians, plumbers and all those people who build houses. So the then minister of immigration went to Europe, in particular Ireland, which was in a terrible recession. The plumbers, carpenters and others couldn't have jobs, so he encouraged many of them to come to Canada. Many of them did and helped with that problem. Indeed, many of them have stayed in Canada and have become Canadians.

Should the Government of Canada, and maybe the Carpenters' District Council of Ontario, go to Europe where there is unemployment in many of these industries—the carpentry industry—and encourage people who are qualified for those different jobs that you've spoken of to come to this country?

[Mark Lewis]

If the Government of Canada wanted to help us, we obviously wouldn't say no—

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

But should the carpenters' union go there—

[Mark Lewis]

I was just going to get to that.

We're not asking for that. We would gladly go, as would our employers. We would set up the basic training that you need to get on job sites in Ontario—the WHMIS, health and safety, fall arrest, working at heights, confined space training. With our employers, we would do it overseas—in Ireland, in Portugal, in parts of South America, in Jamaica for the Caribbean—so when workers came, they could step onto job sites the next day, hopefully.

What we can't do, though, or what we won't do—what the carpenters won't do—is sell false hope. We will not tell workers to come to Canada thinking they have a realistic path to permanent residency, if such a path does not exist.

The Irish are in a unique situation. They are the poster children for that kind of recruitment. First of all, they do City & Guilds apprenticeships that are recognized throughout the British Commonwealth. They're wonderfully trained carpenters, usually starting at age 16, as opposed to 26, which is the average age of starting an apprenticeship in Canada. They speak English, and they read and write English. They have the most realistic chance, and it's wonderful, the more Irish people we can get....

I guess it's good for Ireland, bad for Canada. Their economy is doing better than the lull 10 years ago.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

It's changed.

[Mark Lewis]

We have to—

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Other areas of Europe are still in the situation where Ireland was a number of years ago.

[Mark Lewis]

Lots of people would come from Portugal, Croatia, all across the former Yugoslavia, eastern Europe, Romania. We would take them from anywhere, but we have trouble with the language.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Mr. Lewis, I guess the issue I'm getting to is.... I'm surprised that this panel and the panel before you haven't suggested that the government, and indeed unions and other groups, be more aggressive—go into areas where people are highly qualified in these different aspects and encourage them to come to this country.