Evidence of meeting #153 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was newcomers.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Alain Dupuis  Director General, Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada
Jean Johnson  President, Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada
Kristin Crane  Immigration Liaison, Huron County Immigration Partnership
Dustin Mymko  Community Development Officer/Settlement, Cartwright Killarney Boissevain Settlement Services, Roblin-Cartwright Community Development Corporation
Lily Kwok  Executive Director, Calgary Chinese Community Service Association
Nazifia Hakemy  Program Coordinator, Calgary Chinese Community Service Association
Chantal Desloges  Senior Partner, Desloges Law Group, As an Individual

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant

Thank you.

We have Ms. Rempel for about three to three and a half minutes.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB

Thank you.

My maiden name is Godin and my family is francophone, but I was anglicized.

As a franco-Manitoban who has moved to Alberta and finds it exceptionally difficult to ever practise my French, certainly when I go back home to Manitoba my French grandfather looks at me like I'm the black sheep of the family.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

You probably are.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB

True.

4:25 p.m.

Voices

Oh, oh!

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB

Mr. Johnson, could you perhaps spend the remainder of the time talking specifically about any recommendations you might have for the government on how we can better provide French-language training programs for francophones in Alberta specifically.

4:25 p.m.

President, Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada

Jean Johnson

That is a big issue.

There are two aspects to it.

First, there is the citizen who is trying to learn French and keep in touch with his or her language. In your case, this was your family's language.

Moreover, francophone organizations need to be strengthened by the proper orientation of students or clients who want to learn French. I would go a bit further. In Alberta, the language of work is English. The immigrant citizen needs English to survive in Alberta, correct? Who is in the best position to provide English-language instruction to prepare the immigrant citizen whose first official spoken language is French? We submit that it would be francophone organizations, for two reasons: this builds the capacity of the organization. Secondly, it also cultivates a feeling of loyalty and belonging in the immigrant to the host community that supports him with all of his learning needs so that he can integrate the workforce. That is one way of doing better integration work with that citizen in our communities.

Did I answer your question, Ms. Rempel?

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB

I wish we had another 10 minutes for you to answer, but I think we're done.

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant

You have about minute if you want it.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB

Sure. I'll give the rest of the time to Ms. Crane.

When I visited your area, I was really impressed by the volunteer language training services that were being provided. It really struck home for me that a lot of our resettlement services are focused on urban centres, and that to have retention in rural communities is something that is really necessary. Do you want to talk a little more about the “travel to you” resettlement services that you might have piloted in your riding and that you think we could potentially expand?

4:30 p.m.

Immigration Liaison, Huron County Immigration Partnership

Kristin Crane

It came about with a lot of nagging on my part and my saying, any time I was near the IRCC, “We need settlement services” and “we need settlement services”. Really, it was thanks to the IRCC. They stepped up and said, “Yes, we'll fund it, and we'll do it through a proven partner that has the capacity to deliver in your area.” It really was essential, I feel, to have something like an immigration partnership to create those connections in the community. It sped up that process. We knew who to introduce the settlement worker to and what organizations he needed to reach out to. Through those relationships that were built, it was about educating people on what settlement services are. Then the referrals started.

At this time, it has stabilized quite well, so it's quite predictable to him. He can say that he's going be in this community on this day of the week and in that community on another day of the week, but he's still given that flexibility so that if something should come up, he can travel towards them. It's just a very easy relationship and an easy rapport.

I think that due to how well trained and approachable he is, it has worked extremely well. It relies upon libraries. Oftentimes, creating those physical spaces that are central in those small communities and having people drive newcomers to them takes a bit of a referral network, but it's very impactful once it happens.

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant

Thank you.

I might actually ask our analysts for a bit of help with that, because I don't think we know enough about it.

We may ask you for something in writing, because those of us who come from urban centres don't know.

I want to thank the panel. This was very helpful to us. I'm reminded of how I built a church in Yukon. There were some people who didn't think we needed an elevator because we didn't have any people with mobility issues, but we didn't have any people with mobility issues because we didn't have an elevator. We put in the elevator and we got people with mobility issues, and strollers and bikes and all of that stuff.

I think this is very helpful. How we can encourage people by providing services has to be included in our report. Thank you for this.

We'll suspend for a moment as we change our panel.

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant

Thank you for coming back to order as we continue our meeting.

I'm going to begin with testimony from the Calgary Chinese Community Service Association, Ms. Kwok and Ms. Hakemy, who are coming to us from Calgary.

Thank you.

4:35 p.m.

Lily Kwok Executive Director, Calgary Chinese Community Service Association

I'm Lily Kwok, the Executive Director of the Calgary Chinese Community Service Association. I'll give a very brief introduction of CCCSA.

We are a non-profit organization that is now 40 years old. Our mission is to connect the Chinese community and other ethnic communities to the mainstream, and we are committed to providing an inclusive society in which people's life-chances are maximized.

CCCSA's main target is immigrants, and we try to equip them with knowledge and skills. One important way we do that is to provide them with services to reduce social isolation so that they increase their confidence and independence and are better able to function in Canadian society.

We have four pillars of programs. One is integration and civic engagement, which we call ICE. Under this pillar, we have a lot of supports such as interpretation, one-on-one support, English programs and social inclusion exercises.

The next pillar supports children and youth. Again, this is for immigrant children and youth. We reach out to schools to organize after-school programs, social-norm activities, as well as career investigation.

There are two other pillars—law and advocacy, and family and wellness.

Under the ICE program, we have two English programs. One is called Stepping Stones, and the other is called computer-enhanced ESL literacy. We started Stepping Stones in 2002, and now it is 15 years old. After we started that in the Chinese community, we tried to bring it to the Sudanese and Punjabi communities, but due to a lack of infrastructure, it could not continue.

In 2006, we moved the program to the Afghan community, and we have now had that program in the Afghan community for nine years. This program is very well known in both the Chinese and Afghan communities, and it's getting more popular.

The other one, computer-enhanced ESL literacy, was once a Bow Valley College program, and it was transferred to us in 2015. Both programs are funded by Calgary Learns. We do not receive any IRCC funding. There are other communities that are requesting this program.

I'll give it to Nazifia to explain more about these programs.

4:40 p.m.

Nazifia Hakemy Program Coordinator, Calgary Chinese Community Service Association

Thank you, Lily.

It's a complete pleasure to be here to present our program to you. Thank you so much for giving us the chance.

Our programs, Stepping Stones and computer-enhanced ESL literacy, is for students with very low literacy. I know there are lots of LINC classes around that are based on the PBLA system. We are targeting students who have limited formal schooling; they have no education from back home. I have students who don't even know how to grab a pen and then how to write. These students are homebound and isolated. They could be seniors or mothers with children who haven't gone out to study for a long time. We are helping those individuals.

What is unique about our program is that we welcome everyone. We definitely focus on their ESL benchmark, but we do not limit them such that if they don't have certain marks, they cannot get into the class. It's open to them. They can come and they can learn more and then get a chance to go into a LINC class. We've had lots of students who graduated from our program and then eventually went to LINC classes to pursue their studies. That's one of the biggest successes of our program.

I also want to say that we have trained bilingual facilitators. For example, in the Chinese community, we have Chinese bilingual teachers helping these students. There are many reasons behind that. First of all, these students are isolated. They don't know how to get out of their homes, and they don't know how to go and follow a formal PBLA system. Once they come into the class and they see that the teacher is from their own culture and the teacher welcomes them with their own culture, then they feel more comfortable getting connected to the teacher and then to the learning.

The bilingual facilitator helps a lot in class. Ninety-five per cent of the class happens in English, but only 5% if a student is stuck. If they do not understand the material, we will help them in their own language. Especially when we do our needs assessment or pre- and post-evaluations, we definitely need help to make sure that the students are giving us the correct answer, so we approach them with their own language.

Right now the Stepping Stone program is happening in the Afghan and Chinese communities. We have bilingual facilitators. In the Chinese community, we have four terms, 45 hours every term, or 180 hours per year, and then in the Afghan community we have three terms, 30 hours every term, or 90 hours per year. We mostly target PB or CLB or lower students to make sure they get a chance to pursue their education.

Computer-enhanced literacy is for everyone. It's a multicultural program. Everyone is welcome to attend that program. When we are talking about computer-enhanced literacy, I'm not saying here that we're teaching these students the details of the computer. We are introducing technology to them. We all know how important technology is becoming now, so we introduce them to using an iPad, how to do banking online and so on.

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant

Can you hold on just one moment?

4:45 p.m.

Program Coordinator, Calgary Chinese Community Service Association

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant

I want to check, because the bells are ringing.

You have about 30 seconds to wrap up.

4:45 p.m.

Executive Director, Calgary Chinese Community Service Association

Lily Kwok

The outcomes we want to achieve are that our learners learn basic English skills. Sometimes it's just for social interaction and to navigate life in Canada, but also to bring them out so they are not isolated anymore. It's more than about their finding a job, but also about reducing their isolation in the community.

4:45 p.m.

Program Coordinator, Calgary Chinese Community Service Association

Nazifia Hakemy

Our success is that lots of other communities are approaching us for these kinds of English classes. Of course, the challenge is the lack of funds.

That's it.

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant

That's very good. Thank you very much.

Ms. Desloges, welcome back. You have seven minutes.

4:45 p.m.

Chantal Desloges Senior Partner, Desloges Law Group, As an Individual

Thank you for having me here today.

For those of you who don't know me, I'm a private bar lawyer with more than 20 years of experience, specialized in helping people to immigrate to and become citizens of Canada.

At the beginning of my career, I spent two years working with low-income clients, and for the remainder of my career, I've been assisting people of various economic backgrounds who can afford to pay for that service. I also do a significant amount of pro bono work for deserving clients who can't afford to pay.

Although I've never worked directly in settlement services, my profession takes me into almost daily contact with people who do provide such services. More importantly, I have more than 20 years of experience working with clients and observing how and why certain clients successfully transition into Canada while others fail to do so.

I noticed that a lot of the other witnesses whom you've called for this study on previous days have focused mostly on low-income families and refugees and how to better integrate them. As a result, I'd like to take a little bit of a different approach in my remarks today by focusing purely on economic immigrants and the reason why I believe Canada fails to retain and integrate many of them. I hope you find it sufficiently on topic.

Over the years, I've found myself increasingly disturbed about the amount of attrition I see in newcomers to Canada, as a result of our failing to retain and integrate them. What I mean is the degree of emigration from Canada that I observe. Literally, there is not a single day that goes by in my office that I don't speak to at least one person, and often more than one person, who went to a huge degree of effort and expense to become a permanent resident only to subsequently abandon Canada and return back to their home country.

Many of my colleagues describe the same experience, and I think if you multiply that across Canada, even anecdotally, we have a big problem. It strikes me as a terrible loss that we've put so much effort to attracting the best and the brightest to come to Canada, yet we've put comparatively little attention to tracking and understanding why people leave.

It's my observation that those client families who don't remain in Canada tend to leave for three main reasons.

Number one is economic. They can't find a job commensurate with their skills.

Number two is family ties. It's mostly parents who have been left behind.

Number three is that they never really intended to stay here in the first place.

I read with a lot of interest the brief that was filed by one of the organizational witnesses called MOSAIC. I agree with them wholeheartedly in their approach that Canadian work experience and re-skilling programs are totally crucial if you're going to address the gap between newcomer skills and the jobs that are actually available to them in Canada.

The world is a different place now from 20 years ago. Economic immigrants have a lot of choices for their future, and they don't want just any job; they want a good one that is commensurate with their experience. I've observed through my own client base and even just my own experience as a business owner that the options along the lines of those outlined by MOSAIC are extremely effective in achieving this. In fact, I have three people working for me full time who were hired through co-op placements, and two of those were new immigrants to Canada. So, mentorships, on-the-job training and co-op programs that introduce newcomers directly to employers in the workplace need to become the norm and not the exception.

A further observation is that those of my clients who obtained a Canadian educational credential either before or after immigration had much more success in economically establishing in Canada and were much more likely to stay in Canada over the long term. That's why a program like the Canadian experience class, for example, has been so successful.

For new permanent residents, however, often expense is the main challenge. I recommend prioritizing funding to subsidize re-education and re-skilling programs in a short period after arrival.

Family is also a main reason why people fail to successfully integrate and ultimately abandon Canada. Isolation, loneliness, lack of help with their children and concern for aging parents are powerful factors. In most countries of the world, people grow up in tight-knit, multi-generational families who often live together in one home and share responsibilities. Young families who immigrate to Canada lose that support network. The best-case scenario for a new immigrant family, even if they get a wonderful job immediately, is that they need at least three years of high-level tax returns before they can even think about applying to sponsor parents.

Realistically, it takes people more like five years.

I would recommend implementing ways to keep these families together from the start. One idea, for example, would be allowing economic class immigrants to include their parents on their application if they have sufficient funds to support that.

Another idea would be allowing people to sponsor their parents as caregivers for the grandchildren. In many cultures that's the norm, and it gives parents the opportunity to focus on career and education. There was, in fact, a recent Federal Court case in which the judge was openly perplexed as to why a visa officer would not consider allowing a caregiver work permit for grandparents when they clearly had raised several children of their own and had the relevant work experience.

Finally, my last observation—and I've said this publicly before—is that in general the more wealthy, accomplished and well established a person is in their home country, the less likely they intend to make Canada their permanent home. I've seen a huge amount of abuse in the immigration system by individuals who just use permanent residence as a way to get their dependants to Canada in order to benefit from the various things that we offer to our permanent residents, but have no genuine desire to stay here and contribute professionally or economically.

It makes sense to screen out such people at the time they apply for permanent residence, as opposed to trying to deal with the problem later when they fail to meet the residency obligation. The act contains a mechanism for guarding against it, but I've literally never seen it used, and I think it should be used. Under paragraph 20(1)(a) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, it is required that every foreign national who seeks to enter or remain in Canada as a permanent resident must establish that they've come to Canada in order to be a permanent resident and live here permanently.

I believe that officers need to be alert to that issue as a part of the application process. Applicants should be held to the proof of it, when requested, in order to prevent both abuse of the system and attrition of permanent residents whom we spend so much time trying to attract.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Michelle Rempel

Ms. Desloges, you have about 30 seconds.

4:55 p.m.

Senior Partner, Desloges Law Group, As an Individual

Chantal Desloges

Those are my remarks. I look forward to your questions.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Michelle Rempel

Great.

Mr. Whalen, you have seven minutes.