Evidence of meeting #17 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was families.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Sandy Berman  Steering Committee Member, Or Shalom Syrian Refugee Initiative
El Hafed Ezzabour  Newcomer Outreach Worker , Maison Internationale de la Rive-Sud
Aris Babikian  Chair, Levant Settlement Centre
Shahen Mirakian  Government Relations Coordinator, Armenian Community Centre SAH
Mario Calla  Executive Director, COSTI Immigrant Services
Gini Bonner  Executive Director, Mount Pleasant Family Centre Society
Sanja Sladojevic  Early Years Refugee Program Manager, Mount Pleasant Family Centre Society
Karen Shortt  President, Vancouver Community College Faculty Association

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Borys Wrzesnewskyj

Thank you.

Mr. Tabbara, you have seven minutes, please.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Marwan Tabbara Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all for coming here. We really appreciate your taking the time and informing this committee of the great work you're doing.

First, Mr. Ezzabour, I'm wondering if you could talk about some of the unexpected challenges your group has successfully overcome. You said you had 48 hours before your first mandate, and I know we campaigned on 25,000 refugees, so there was a heavy influx. Can you tell us about some of the success stories you've seen?

11:40 a.m.

Newcomer Outreach Worker , Maison Internationale de la Rive-Sud

El Hafed Ezzabour

Thank you.

As an organization in Brossard, we have taken on the challenge of settling the refugees. We haven't had any problems with housing, because we are already experienced in dealing with property owners. They are understanding. To resolve the crisis, we think housing must be addressed first. If the refugees have housing, we can take on all the challenges, and housing is the first challenge.

Our second challenge concerns health, specifically the application for the interim federal health program. Syrians have problems when it comes to the services of dentists and optometrists, who say the government will not reimburse them for the treatments they provide. That's why there are now many cases of people with dental health issues. Dentists are recommending only that teeth be pulled, rather than providing other treatments. The interim federal health program doesn't give Syrian refugees the opportunity to have their teeth cared for properly. That's a problem. We have welcomed vulnerable Syrian refugees, large families from villages who have six or seven children. They need support, especially in relation to health.

The third challenge is interpretation in hospitals. If the refugees need to go to the emergency room at or after midnight, they would have trouble communicating with hospital staff. This raises major issues. We recommend that a toll-free number be arranged or that interpreters be hired.

Currently, our major challenges regarding the refugees concern health and, above all, interpretation.

Francization is also a challenge. All the refugees we have welcomed have little education, not even at the primarily level. It could even be described as illiteracy, among the children as well. It's a major challenge for us. However, with the school boards, we have set up many committees to guide and support children who have psychological and language difficulties.

For the time being, our two biggest challenges are the children's integration into school and health.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Marwan Tabbara Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON

Thank you.

You mentioned also the interim federal health program. The previous government cut that. If that was still not in place right now, how would that have hindered your organization from helping the Syrian refugees?

11:45 a.m.

Newcomer Outreach Worker , Maison Internationale de la Rive-Sud

El Hafed Ezzabour

It's true. It's very frustrating for Syrians, especially for families. Some people even talking about returning to Lebanon or Turkey because they are having a hard time and they are frustrated about not finding anyone to help them, especially with dental and eye care. This causes many problems.

We are currently trying to solve this major problem, and we are looking for ways to get them dental care. We are looking for someone to help them cope with the frustration. It's a real challenge.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Marwan Tabbara Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON

Thank you.

My other question is to Ms. Berman.

You mentioned in your testimony the challenge of raising children and caring for children. What measures would you recommend to ensure that all women have access to language training? Would you recommend child services programs, and have you seen any challenges with women accessing language training?

11:50 a.m.

Steering Committee Member, Or Shalom Syrian Refugee Initiative

Sandy Berman

We've definitely seen a lot of challenges. There are long wait-lists for English classes for women with young children. Particularly for those with babies, there are very limited spaces. Targeting classes for women who have children would be a plus. Increased funding for that would be beneficial.

We are also looking into a partnership with a company to look at developing a platform to deliver micro English language classes on a cellphone as an interim measure to help immigrant and refugee women access some English classes while they're waiting to get into the in-person classes. We're looking at alternatives to support moving forward.

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Borys Wrzesnewskyj

Thank you.

Mr. Tilson, you have five minutes, please.

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

A lot of time has been spent in this committee talking about the existing problems we have, whether they involve health care, education, language, housing, or other kinds of things. The question I've been asking some of the witnesses over time has been about this issue of the 13th month, which I think Ms. Kwan referred to, when the funding expires. There's no funding. It's all over.

I asked this of the minister, and the minister said, “Oh well, they'll have to go on social assistance.” I have no idea what effect that's going to have on the provincial assistance programs.

We'll start off with Ms. Berman.

Could you comment as to how serious you think this issue is, and whether you're aware of the percentage of refugees who will be forced to go on welfare? Specifically in the case of private sponsors, there will be a moral issue, and of course they'll feel obligated to help, but on the other hand, they may have resources for only 12 months. What are your thoughts on what will happen when the funding expires?

11:50 a.m.

Steering Committee Member, Or Shalom Syrian Refugee Initiative

Sandy Berman

You're right that as private sponsors, we see ourselves being obligated to support the family for way beyond one year. We have very much committed to a long-term relationship. I really want to emphasize that.

We have been debating about raising extra money in order to afford accommodation, because the family will be faced with a dilemma at the end, since a welfare rate will not cover the extra amount for rent that we have raised.

We are very concerned and we see this as a real ethical challenge for us. We're still going ahead, but we are also looking to find resources to support them to find employment so that they won't necessarily have to end up on welfare. It is documented that many families are on welfare, and one of the biggest problems goes back to the fact that they haven't been able to access enough English language classes in order to find employment, so we keep going around in circles.

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

Mr. Babikian, perhaps you could comment on this as well.

Has there been any talk of the federal government extending this 13-month rule? Also, can you provide your comments on where we're all going to be at the end of 12 months, which isn't far away?

11:50 a.m.

Chair, Levant Settlement Centre

Aris Babikian

I personally haven't heard about any kind of suggestion to extend that one-year timeline.

Coming back to the issue of housing, we are addressing two different problems. Our experience in Toronto has been that it is difficult and unaffordable for the refugees, but the privately sponsored refugees are better adapted to solving this problem because all of them are immediately trying to work. They are not in ideal working conditions, and they are not getting the best money they can. Some families are working at two jobs, or the breadwinner in the family as well as the children are working. I personally don't see long-term problems with the privately sponsored refuges, but the government-sponsored refugees are quite a concern. No one can forecast what the ramifications will be when the 13th month comes.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

Do you have any quick recommendations, because there are going to be more government-sponsored refugees coming? Do you have any recommendations to the government on this issue of funding?

11:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Borys Wrzesnewskyj

You have 20 seconds.

11:55 a.m.

Chair, Levant Settlement Centre

Aris Babikian

As I said earlier, encourage more corporations to come in and especially try to open channels with landlords in various cities and give incentives to landlords so that they bring some kind of special arrangement for these refugees to help them move in.

11:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Borys Wrzesnewskyj

Thank you, Mr. Babikian.

Mr. Sarai, you have five minutes, please.

June 2nd, 2016 / 11:55 a.m.

Liberal

Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC

Thank you for coming.

One of the things I'm noticing here is that the challenges we're talking about are the challenges that actually every newcomer has. I come from the metro Vancouver region, and rents are high and housing is in tight demand. Whether you're on social services or you're a new immigrant, you're facing those challenges.

We have to be cognizant that ravel loans have been waived, I think, for government-sponsored refugees and privately sponsored refugees who applied by March of 2016. The government has introduced an interim health plan to cover their dental and extended benefits, though we have heard, as you and other speakers said earlier, that there are problems with getting the claims in.

What we think is that a lot of dentists, optometrists, and other specialists don't like doing the extra work, and it is cumbersome. We've heard about it and we've actually asked for recommendations to see how we can streamline it so that an optometrist just doesn't say no but is able to do it as with any other medical benefit extended plan, under which you just send in a memo and in a few minutes you get approval and you can do the dental work or optometry work.

We understand it's a frustrating system and that some doctors may not want to do it just because of the cumbersome process, but the money is there and the program is there.

Another thing I'm noticing and bringing to your attention is that 10,000 privately sponsored refugees did arrive by March and they did get settled. What we're noticing now is a result of the overwhelming response of privately sponsored families. People want to bring them in, and they've been excited. They're all thinking that refugees are going to move in, but because 10,000 have already arrived, the timeline is perhaps a little slow.

My point now—and I'm going to ask you if you can answer a question on it—is that the government commitment is to give government-sponsored refugees the same amount of money as one would get on social services in that province. In Ontario it may be more or less, in B.C. it may be more or less, but it will be the same as in that province. How can you see it justifiable for the federal government to give more money than what a Canadian welfare or social service recipient is getting? We can only match it. We cannot give more to somebody who's coming now. How can you overcome that?

This is a two-part question. First perhaps Mr. Babikian or Ms. Berman can elaborate on it. How can we justify that?

Second, if a PSR is given a commitment that he or she or that family will be given the same amount of money as a government-sponsored refugee, which is roughly the same amount that social services will cover, then there should be no pressure on that family to go and get a job. During the 12 months, they have the ability to get their skills upgraded, to get language training, and to do other things. Maybe we have a problem with the privately sponsored families, who are saying they will give those resources but are not doing it. Is that the issue, or is it a compulsion that the families themselves are feeling they must abide by?

Mr. Babikian, you can start.

11:55 a.m.

Chair, Levant Settlement Centre

Aris Babikian

We are discussing this today because, of course, we want to discuss the shortfalls, to tweak the program and make it the best system available and to make this program a model for the rest of the world. There are positive signs, but there are also some shortfalls in the program.

The issue is the speed with which all these refugees came, the mass airlift between December 10 and February 29. That was one of the critical issues that created some of these difficulties. For example, some sponsors sponsored more than one family.

The people who came before December 4 came through commercial airlines, 30 or 35 families a week in the Toronto region, and it was much easier to handle and to resettle these people. However, the mass air arrival of 10,000 people in two months created a situation that the agencies, the SAHs, and the private sponsors suddenly found out they could not handle it all at once. That's why we have some of these difficulties.

Noon

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Borys Wrzesnewskyj

You have 10 seconds, please.

Noon

Chair, Levant Settlement Centre

Aris Babikian

Again, the privately sponsored refugees don't want to be a burden. If we can provide them with a proper working situation, they will be completely satisfied. They will be off the program and they will not be a burden on anyone.

Noon

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Borys Wrzesnewskyj

Thank you, Mr. Babikian.

I would like to thank all the panellists who appeared before us today for the important insights they are providing to the committee. I know I speak on behalf of the whole committee when I express our gratitude for all the work that you personally, and your organizations, are doing in helping to settle Syrian refugees.

We will now suspend for two minutes to allow the next panel to arrive.

Noon

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Borys Wrzesnewskyj

Good afternoon.

Our second panel today consists of Shahen Mirakian, government relations coordinator for the Armenian Community Centre; Mario Calla, the executive director of COSTI Immigrant Services; Gini Bonner, executive director, and Sanja Sladojevic, early years refugee program manager, both from the Mount Pleasant Family Centre Society, sharing a slot; and finally Karen Shortt, president of the Vancouver Community College Faculty Association.

I would like to remind witnesses that they have seven minutes for their presentations.

We begin with Mr. Mirakian.

Noon

Shahen Mirakian Government Relations Coordinator, Armenian Community Centre SAH

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I could go in one of two directions with my presentation. I have written up both.

I think I won't use my entire seven minutes and will speak more briefly, because I noticed in the previous session that there were questions asked. I think I can elucidate from my other presentation through the questions.

Noon

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Borys Wrzesnewskyj

You can submit your second report, and we will make sure it is circulated.

Please proceed.

Noon

Government Relations Coordinator, Armenian Community Centre SAH

Shahen Mirakian

I will send that electronically to the clerk afterwards as well. Thank you.

Good afternoon. My name is Shahen Mirakian. For today's purposes, I have been designated—or, more properly, I've designated myself—as the government relations coordinator for the Armenian Community Centre sponsorship agreement holder. In reality, I'm serving as a proxy for our entire organization, but more precisely, I'm serving as a proxy for my father, Apkar Mirakian, whom some of you may know, and who has been much more closely involved in the resettlement efforts than I have. I speak in part for him, in the sense that he's provided me with the information I'm providing today, although I am personally familiar with much of the information as well.

I should say—and it's not a matter of false modesty but an absolute truth—that my own personal contribution to this effort has been rather modest. “Next to nothing” is probably more accurate. I take absolutely no individual credit for anything that the ACC sponsorship agreement holder has accomplished. I only regret that my father is under the weather this week, because he's in a better position to be able to speak to some of these issues from a first-hand basis, but also, if there are any accolades or blame to be given, he's in a better position to receive them.

As Canadians of Armenian descent, we were immediately drawn to Canada's effort to resettle Syrian and Iraqi refugees. One could not help but see the historical parallels between this effort and Canada's first international humanitarian effort in 1923, when 109 boys orphaned by the Armenian genocide were brought to live on a farm in Georgetown, Ontario, through the efforts of both the Canadian government and ordinary Canadians.

Motivated by a desire to do our fair share, we set an ambitious goal and opened our doors widely. With the Canadian government's expedited target, we found ourselves nearly overwhelmed by the scope of our ambition. It was only through the tireless work by our volunteers and by Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada staff that we were able to succeed.

We would like to express our gratitude to all the staff at Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada, here and abroad, who worked to make the recent Syrian refugee project such a success.

We are particularly grateful to Mr. Wally Boxhill, who was our link to IRCC and worked closely with us during the busiest days to coordinate the arrival and transportation of over 1,500 privately sponsored refugees. It would not be an exaggeration to say that without Mr. Boxhill's help there would have been no way that we could have kept up with the pace of arrivals. We particularly appreciate Mr. Boxhill's willingness to travel to Toronto, often on very short notice, to meet with us and to observe the situation first-hand. Especially in the late days of December, when we were stretched to our maximum, Mr. Boxhill's visit to the ACC was especially important in creating a lasting communication between our sponsorship agreement holder and the IRCC staff.

We are also thankful to Ms. Deborah Tunis, who was the first person from IRCC to open lines of communication—again in those dark days of December—and who made herself available day and night to answer all of our questions. Mr. Richard Lecours was the first person from IRCC to visit the Armenian Community Centre in December and remains an important part of the team to this very day.

Mr. Michael O'Byrne provided vital support for our resettlement effort from IRCC's Toronto office, along with his colleagues Mr. Ryan Shadford and Ms. Teresa Wu, who were the eyes and ears on the ground and worked with us, particularly in February when the numbers were especially high, in making sure that all the PSRs got onto the right buses and were in the right hotels, and in making sure that we picked up everyone and their luggage and delivered them to the right places.

In the Beirut visa office, we would like thank Ms. Heather Michaud, who worked with us to ensure a seamless process from the initial interview to the final settlement in Canada, and who continues to work with us. My father visited Ms. Michaud in Beirut just two Fridays ago through IRCC's facilitation. She was happy to see him, and they had a very cordial conversation.

Of course, there are numerous other IRCC staff members whose work is still not visible to us, but who no doubt made it possible for us to accept so many refugees in such a short period of time. Possibly not of direct relevance to the scope of this committee's review is the contribution made by the Ontario government, particularly the Ministry of Citizenship, Immigration and International Trade and the Office of the Premier, particularly the refugee settlement coordinating committee.

I should add that although the mandate of the Ontario government is focused on settlement as opposed to resettlement, the efforts of the MCIIT and the Office of the Premier also assisted us in being able to do resettlement efforts as well. They contributed to the resettlement effort and they continue to contribute so that we are able to do the settlement effort.

I see that Mr. Calla is present with us—virtually—and I should say that COSTI has also been extremely helpful in the settlement and resettlement efforts. They may not feel they've been important in the resettlement effort, but I want to tell Mr. Calla that we appreciate everything COSTI has done with us and for us.

Finally, I think I would be ungrateful if I were not to thank the various immigration ministers who worked with the ACC SAH and took the opportunity to visit our community centre. Minister John McCallum, Minister Chris Alexander, and Minister Jason Kenney all took a special interest in our work and made our success a specific priority. All three of them visited the community centre during these times, and all three met with recently arrived PSRs.

I should say that we were extremely ambitious in our efforts to resettle nearly 2,000 privately sponsored Syrian and Iraqi refugees in Canada. I should also add that I have written the number 2,000 here, but in a recent event we had, Minister Chan said that they had counted up our numbers, and it was closer to 2,300, so let me correct myself and say that there are 2,300 privately sponsored Syrian and Iraqi refugees.