Citizenship and Immigration Committee on June 9th, 2016

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Mr. Tabbara, for five minutes.

[Marwan Tabbara, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Minister and staff, for being here today.

I want to talk about the generosity of the Canadian government and the Canadian people of bringing in so many Syrian refugees in a short amount of time. It really rings true to Canada's return to its humanitarian traditions.

This is shown not only by the unprecedented resettlement of thousands of some of the most vulnerable members of our global community in a very short period of time, but also by the reinstatement of various programs cancelled by the previous government.

The interim health program was fully restored on April 1, 2016, after it was cut in 2012, leaving already vulnerable newcomers, particularly women and children, without access to basic medical care.

Can you elaborate on the various significant changes to programs aimed at refugees that have occurred in the last few months?

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Thank you for that very good question.

You're right, in that we have changed things in a significant way since coming to power. Perhaps the single statistic that tells the story is to look at resettled refugees. For 2015, 13,800 was the target, and for 2016 it's 44,800. That's more than triple the number of refugees that we're admitting this year compared with the last year of the previous government. That's a big change.

You mentioned refugee health care. I think that is also important. Those of us who were in Parliament in the old days will remember when that decision came down that a judge declared the policy of denying basic health care to refugees was cruel and unusual and therefore unconstitutional. Yet the previous government continued to delay in implementing the orders of the court. In some sense we had no choice because the court had ordered it, but it was something we had committed to do anyway. We think the decent thing to do is to provide basic health care. We weren't the only ones who said that. The court agreed, too.

You ask what we've done. Well, another thing we did—I'm at the end of my list; I think three is enough—has to do with the Citizenship Act, which is now going through Parliament. I think it will be through the House quite soon, and then on to the Senate. We have made a basic change in terms of saying the government will no longer be able to revoke people's citizenship for certain criminal acts, because we believe all Canadians are equal and there's only one class of citizen.

Those are some of the things we have done since November.

[Marwan Tabbara, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

I know in my region the medical community has been applauding that change, and I thank you for that, Minister.

The previous government's budget bill restricted refugee access to social assistance. How will the 2016-17 supplementary estimates affect the ease of integration of Syrian refugees, including language training, housing, physical and mental health, and other fundamental important factors required for their integration into Canadian society?

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

I'm not aware that the previous government restricted access to social assistance. Perhaps...no?

Seemingly the additional funding that we are providing will help to resettle the refugees, teach them languages, help them get jobs, and hopefully minimize the need for people to go on social assistance. But anyone who is a Canadian permanent resident does have the right to go on social assistance, and that happens both to refugees and to others. Through our settlement funding, we are hoping to equip the refugees so that they will find jobs and not need to do that.

[Marwan Tabbara, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

How much time do I have left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

You have 30 seconds.

[Marwan Tabbara, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Thirty seconds, I guess that's all.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Thank you, Mr. Tabbara.

Mr. Shipley, I understand that you'll be splitting your time with Ms. Rempel, so you have two and a half minutes.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. It's good to see you back.

Minister, thank you for coming.

I'm not on this committee, but I am quite astounded at some of the things I'm hearing. Minister, all these announcements that come out, it would appear in terms of what I've been able to understand in the last three quarters of an hour is that there's been absolutely no idea on the costing and no analysis in terms of outcome. What I'm seeing is that you've been able to build in, as was in the government's budget, some exorbitant contingency funds so that when things don't work out, it makes it look like you have saved substantial amounts of dollars.

These are all significant issues. When asked about waiving the immigration loans program, you were not able to give an answer. There are the military bases that were converted out of somebody's budget, DND's likely. The people who were going there are not going there. I don't know if those buildings are sitting empty now waiting in case there is a change in immigration, but again, no costs were given today about it. On the cost to renovate the hotels, and there were great announcements about the renovations, there are no guidelines in terms of the costs. What is the cost of the new additional social assistance that is now being allocated to the refugee program, sir?

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

You say you're not on the committee, but some of your questions don't seem to hit the mark.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

In fact, they're all very relevant, Minister, because they're all related to immigration.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

I don't think specific money has been allocated for social assistance. Social assistance is provincial. If people need to go on social assistance, the province will pay.

I guess a general response to your point, and perhaps my colleague Richard Wex can deal with it more specifically, is that it's hard for the Liberals to win because of the way the Conservatives pose their questions. Usually you say that we're big spenders and that we spend too much. Now we come in substantially under budget and you complain about that, too. I'm not quite sure what we're supposed to do on spending to get your approval. According to the Conservatives, we spend too much but when we spend less, they criticize us for spending too little. Perhaps we can't win, although in the last election most Canadians seemed to think we were okay.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

I'll turn it over to my colleague.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

We just want you to have a plan, Minister, with respect.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

We do have a plan.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

I'm going to jump in here and look at the 400%—

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

What about Richard Wex?

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

I'll take the time now.

There's a 400% increase in refugees year over year. I'm wondering, with regard to the immigration levels report, if the cost impact on the municipal and principal governments, given this 400% increase, was calculated. I'm also wondering if there were any consultations with provincial and municipal governments on providing social services to refugees related to a 400% increase in refugees. This would be for school boards dealing with refugees, mental health services, etc.

I'm directing this question to the officials.

[Richard Wex]

I'll start and then turn it over to my colleagues.

To the question of whether there were consultations with the provinces in the development of the levels plan, there was consultation at the officials level as well as with the minister. There were various face-to-face meetings and phone calls with the officials through their regular channels.

Obviously, there are downstream effects. That's a very fair point the member is making about the real downstream effects of settlement and integration of this population. It's a national project. This government has put in $678 million over six years for the 25,000 initiative. We're reporting on that. We're trying to report on the expenditures and the plans over the six years, which we're happy to do, if we could come back to that. As I said, significant funds have been put in place, including with respect to settlement. Given that this is a national project, we're all in this together, and we continue to consult with other stakeholders and other levels of government.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

You said there was a real downstream impact on provincial and municipal governments. Has the department conducted a cost estimate on the downstream impact of refugee settlement services?

[Richard Wex]

Certainly, including in the supplementary estimates (A) where we're seeking another $18.3 million, it's all part of the increase we're seeking to deal with the very real issues of settlement and integration.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

The department, then, is saying—

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

I'm sorry, but the time is up.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

—that the downstream impact is $18 million.